WEBVTT 0 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.840 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another exciting episode of 1 00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:05.840 Space Nuns. I'm your host for this season, 2 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.640 Heidi Campo. And joining us is Professor 3 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.280 Fred. Watch it. Fred Watson, 4 00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:12.960 astronomer at large. 5 00:00:13.600 --> 00:00:16.400 Professor Fred Watson: Actually, that's quite a nice, uh. It's quite 6 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:19.040 a nice epithet. It should be Fred watching, 7 00:00:19.540 --> 00:00:21.760 uh, because I watched the universe. Fred 8 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.400 watching here loud and clear. 9 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:27.120 Looking forward to speaking again, Heidi. 10 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.080 Heidi Campo: We, uh. We, uh. We're off to a great start. 11 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:32.820 No, that's. That is fun. We are. We are. We 12 00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:35.500 are all observers in this universe. And you 13 00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:37.820 are listening to space nuts. 14 00:00:37.900 --> 00:00:40.380 Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 15 00:00:40.620 --> 00:00:43.340 10, 9. Uh, ignition 16 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:43.940 sequence. 17 00:00:43.940 --> 00:00:45.144 Professor Fred Watson: Star space nuts. 18 00:00:45.216 --> 00:00:48.024 Generic: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 19 00:00:48.096 --> 00:00:50.700 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Space 20 00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:53.340 nuts. Astronauts report it feels good. 21 00:00:54.370 --> 00:00:57.260 Heidi Campo: Um, today we have some very interesting 22 00:00:57.260 --> 00:00:59.380 articles. Uh, we're. We're kind of kicking 23 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:01.100 things off. It's a. It's kind of a mystery 24 00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:03.650 episode. I feel like this is a very, very 25 00:01:03.650 --> 00:01:06.490 detective heavy episode. We've 26 00:01:06.490 --> 00:01:09.250 got mysteries being solved, 27 00:01:09.250 --> 00:01:12.250 we have mysteries unsolved, and we have clues 28 00:01:12.250 --> 00:01:14.970 to mysteries. So our first 29 00:01:14.970 --> 00:01:17.570 article this week is we are talking about a 30 00:01:17.570 --> 00:01:20.490 mystery that, uh, might be 31 00:01:20.490 --> 00:01:23.290 solved. So this is, uh. We're looking 32 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:26.050 at what this is, is the home address 33 00:01:26.530 --> 00:01:28.050 for some missing matter. 34 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:31.820 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Um, uh, it's a 35 00:01:31.820 --> 00:01:34.820 story that, um, I find really 36 00:01:34.820 --> 00:01:37.260 interesting because the 37 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.860 groundwork for this work was laid down five 38 00:01:39.860 --> 00:01:41.380 years ago here in Australia, 39 00:01:42.300 --> 00:01:45.220 um, with, um, work that's 40 00:01:45.700 --> 00:01:47.580 been carried out on something you and I have 41 00:01:47.580 --> 00:01:49.700 spoken about before. Briefly. 42 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:52.260 Uh. Briefly is the word, because we're 43 00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:54.900 talking here about fast radio bursts, 44 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:58.040 uh, which are things that have only been 45 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:00.480 known in the last. It's getting on for 20 46 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.480 years now since the first observations were 47 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:04.640 made. But, uh. But they're still 48 00:02:04.800 --> 00:02:07.280 relatively new in the 49 00:02:07.440 --> 00:02:10.160 armory that astronomers can bring to 50 00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:12.880 bear on the universe. And what they are 51 00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:16.200 is pretty well what the name says. They're 52 00:02:16.200 --> 00:02:19.120 bursts of radio radiation. These are detected 53 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:21.040 with radio telescopes, not visible light 54 00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:23.670 telescopes. Uh, and they are. 55 00:02:24.230 --> 00:02:26.920 Fast, uh, is probably a misnomer. Uh, 56 00:02:26.950 --> 00:02:29.690 short would be a better word. Uh, 57 00:02:29.690 --> 00:02:32.030 but they, uh. Because they only last for 58 00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:34.270 typically a millionth of. Sorry, uh, a 59 00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:35.990 millisecond, a thousandth of a second, 60 00:02:35.990 --> 00:02:38.910 thereabouts, roughly. Often they've got 61 00:02:38.910 --> 00:02:40.590 structure in them as well, which is 62 00:02:40.590 --> 00:02:42.350 interesting when you look at the profile of 63 00:02:42.350 --> 00:02:44.990 the intensity of that millisecond 64 00:02:44.990 --> 00:02:47.750 burst spread out. If you can magnify the, 65 00:02:48.030 --> 00:02:50.670 uh, sort of time domain, you can see that 66 00:02:50.670 --> 00:02:52.670 there are features in that, uh, peaks and 67 00:02:52.670 --> 00:02:55.570 troughs, uh, squashed into that millisecond. 68 00:02:55.810 --> 00:02:58.050 So very, very fascinating 69 00:02:58.370 --> 00:03:01.370 objects. Their origin is still not 70 00:03:01.370 --> 00:03:04.250 certain. Um, I think the best 71 00:03:04.250 --> 00:03:07.090 guess of my colleagues who work on this kind 72 00:03:07.090 --> 00:03:10.090 of thing is that they are flares on 73 00:03:10.090 --> 00:03:12.650 magnetars. And magnetars are 74 00:03:12.650 --> 00:03:15.410 highly magnetized neutron stars. 75 00:03:15.570 --> 00:03:18.530 And these things apparently are able 76 00:03:18.530 --> 00:03:21.090 to have flares on their surface which can be 77 00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:23.930 very intense. These radio bursts are very, 78 00:03:23.930 --> 00:03:26.930 very bright in the radio spectrum. 79 00:03:27.410 --> 00:03:29.370 So that's one thing. 80 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:30.450 Heidi Campo: Real quick, Fred. I'm sorry. 81 00:03:30.450 --> 00:03:31.010 Professor Fred Watson: No worries. 82 00:03:31.650 --> 00:03:33.770 Heidi Campo: I have noticed, um, based on the questions 83 00:03:33.770 --> 00:03:35.370 lately, that we are getting a lot of new 84 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:38.250 listeners lately. Can you, um, maybe 85 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:40.250 specify to some of our newer listeners the 86 00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:43.250 difference between a neutron star and 87 00:03:43.330 --> 00:03:44.530 perhaps our star? 88 00:03:45.410 --> 00:03:48.210 Professor Fred Watson: I can, um. Yeah, sorry. That's a really good 89 00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:50.990 question and a really good point to make. Um, 90 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:53.810 so, um, neutron stars are, uh, 91 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:56.960 stars that have reached the end of 92 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.920 their life, their hydrogen fuel, which 93 00:03:59.920 --> 00:04:02.520 is what powers stars like our sun that's 94 00:04:02.600 --> 00:04:05.080 being powered by hydrogen fuel. As we speak. 95 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.280 That fuel has run out on 96 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.080 a neutron star. And 97 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.400 the stars are really interesting because 98 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.000 there's a constant battle going on between, 99 00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:20.660 uh, the radiation that is coming from 100 00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:22.580 these nuclear processes, which is pushing 101 00:04:22.580 --> 00:04:24.660 outwards, and gravity, which is pulling 102 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.620 inwards and trying to compress, uh, a star 103 00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:29.660 like the sun. So it achieves a balance 104 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:32.220 between, uh, radiation and gravitation. 105 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:35.580 And so you can imagine what would happen if, 106 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:38.460 at the end of a star's life, um, the 107 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:41.020 radiation stops because the nuclear 108 00:04:41.020 --> 00:04:43.060 processes have actually changed. They don't 109 00:04:43.060 --> 00:04:45.220 stop, but they change. What's going to happen 110 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:48.220 is gravitation wins and compresses, uh, 111 00:04:48.540 --> 00:04:50.740 the star down. And that, uh, sometimes 112 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:53.220 happens explosively in the case of what we 113 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:55.740 call a supernova, an exploding star. And so 114 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:58.620 one possible remnant from such 115 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:01.610 an event is a neutron star, uh, 116 00:05:01.610 --> 00:05:04.420 in which, uh, the thing 117 00:05:04.420 --> 00:05:07.300 has collapsed. And the only thing that's 118 00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:10.220 stopping that central core of 119 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:14.580 the X star, the star that is now 120 00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:16.620 no longer a star. The only thing, 121 00:05:17.330 --> 00:05:19.890 um, that stops it collapsing completely to a 122 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.440 black hole, uh, is the outward 123 00:05:22.520 --> 00:05:25.000 resistance of the neutrons within it. 124 00:05:25.590 --> 00:05:28.240 Um, and so those neutrons have an 125 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:30.360 outward pressure, and that limits the 126 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.320 collapse. Uh, so what you have is 127 00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:35.640 a star that used to be perhaps like our Sun. 128 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:38.360 1.3. Probably more actually, in the case of a 129 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:39.760 neutron star, because they're bigger than the 130 00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:41.880 sun anyway. 1.32 131 00:05:42.440 --> 00:05:44.830 million kilometers across. Suddenly, uh, 132 00:05:45.280 --> 00:05:47.930 it's collapsed to something, um, 10 133 00:05:47.930 --> 00:05:50.170 kilometers, 7 miles across, 134 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:53.770 uh, but with incredibly high density. 135 00:05:54.010 --> 00:05:57.010 And all sorts of unusual phenomena take place 136 00:05:57.010 --> 00:05:58.690 in those stars. They are generally 137 00:05:58.690 --> 00:06:01.050 magnetized. Um, many of them 138 00:06:01.290 --> 00:06:04.280 squirt, um, beams of radiation out, um, 139 00:06:04.330 --> 00:06:06.530 and because they're rotating, those Beams 140 00:06:06.530 --> 00:06:08.930 have this sort of lighthouse effect that we 141 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:11.530 see them flashing. Uh, but we believe 142 00:06:11.690 --> 00:06:14.050 as well some are so highly magnetized that 143 00:06:14.050 --> 00:06:16.360 they form a different species, though what 144 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:18.880 are called magnetars. And apparently they 145 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:21.600 have flares on them. Uh, and these flares are 146 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:23.720 what we think gives rise to fast radio 147 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.560 bursts. So that's 148 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.700 where the science is. Uh, 149 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.200 astronomers have been now observing these 150 00:06:31.200 --> 00:06:32.640 fast radio bursts for 151 00:06:34.400 --> 00:06:37.010 best part of a decade. Uh, 152 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.760 and, uh, one or two of them repeat, 153 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.360 which are a bit mysterious because it 154 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.280 suggests that something's rotating because 155 00:06:44.280 --> 00:06:46.600 you get this repeating appearance of the 156 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.460 burst. Uh, often though, they just come 157 00:06:49.460 --> 00:06:51.940 out of nowhere. Uh, and there are several 158 00:06:51.940 --> 00:06:53.820 radio telescopes in the world that are 159 00:06:53.820 --> 00:06:56.740 actively looking for these objects. One 160 00:06:56.740 --> 00:06:59.420 of them is down, uh, here in Australia, 161 00:07:00.210 --> 00:07:01.940 uh, the ascap, the Australian Square 162 00:07:01.940 --> 00:07:04.260 Kilometer Array Pathfinder. And that actually 163 00:07:04.260 --> 00:07:06.580 was one of the ones that contributed to the 164 00:07:06.580 --> 00:07:08.780 work that was carried out that I mentioned a 165 00:07:08.780 --> 00:07:10.780 minute ago, uh, about five years ago. 166 00:07:11.330 --> 00:07:14.140 Um, in looking at how 167 00:07:14.810 --> 00:07:16.890 what these fast radio bursts might tell us 168 00:07:17.370 --> 00:07:20.250 about not just magnetars, but about 169 00:07:20.330 --> 00:07:22.690 the space through which the bursts of 170 00:07:22.690 --> 00:07:25.370 radiation travel. Because we now know 171 00:07:25.770 --> 00:07:28.050 that most of these radio bursts take place in 172 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.290 very distant galaxies. They're galaxies that 173 00:07:30.290 --> 00:07:32.690 are, ah, you know, where distances are 174 00:07:32.690 --> 00:07:34.930 measured in billions of light years. They're 175 00:07:34.930 --> 00:07:37.530 a long, long way off. And so the radio 176 00:07:37.530 --> 00:07:40.530 bursts have traveled through a lot of empty 177 00:07:40.530 --> 00:07:43.490 space. Apparently empty. Um, 178 00:07:43.490 --> 00:07:46.180 and so I'm getting near the story here. 179 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:48.740 This is the introduction to the story. We're 180 00:07:48.740 --> 00:07:51.460 nearly there. Um, what we 181 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:54.300 find with fast radio bursts is that the 182 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:57.140 bursts are, ah, um, dispersed. 183 00:07:57.780 --> 00:08:00.540 That's the technical term, which is a little 184 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.460 bit like the way a prism breaks up the light 185 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:06.860 of the sun or a white light into a 186 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:09.760 spectrum, spectrum of colors. The same 187 00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:12.680 sort of thing happens as radio waves travel 188 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:14.880 through space. You've got this spike of 189 00:08:14.880 --> 00:08:17.520 radiation, but as it goes through space, 190 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.760 this dispersion phenomenon takes place. And 191 00:08:20.760 --> 00:08:23.440 the result is, uh, that the different 192 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.320 frequencies are spread out in time. So, 193 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:28.800 um, if I remember rightly, I'm not a radio 194 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.240 astronomer, the, um, 195 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.880 short wave, the higher frequencies arrive 196 00:08:34.880 --> 00:08:37.230 before the lower frequencies. Is that right? 197 00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:40.180 I think that's right. Yes, it is. Um, 198 00:08:40.630 --> 00:08:43.470 and the high frequencies are high first. But 199 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:45.990 this burst, um, in different frequencies, 200 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:48.270 it's still a spike of radiation. But you're 201 00:08:48.270 --> 00:08:50.710 now looking at almost like you've dispersed 202 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:51.390 it into a spectrum. 203 00:08:51.390 --> 00:08:53.190 You're looking at different frequencies. 204 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:57.110 And so the lower frequencies arrive later. 205 00:08:57.350 --> 00:08:59.910 Now that tells you 206 00:09:00.310 --> 00:09:03.000 something about the space that the 207 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.320 radio waves have been traveling through. 208 00:09:05.400 --> 00:09:06.880 Because there is what we call the 209 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:09.320 intergalactic medium. Uh, and 210 00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:11.800 that is basically a very 211 00:09:11.800 --> 00:09:14.800 rarefied, um, gas, if 212 00:09:14.800 --> 00:09:16.640 you like. Although you're talking about one 213 00:09:16.640 --> 00:09:19.280 atom per cubic meter or thereabouts. It's 214 00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:22.080 that sort of rarefaction. Uh, 215 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:23.640 but there's enough of it. Because you're 216 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:25.520 coming through these great distances. There's 217 00:09:25.520 --> 00:09:28.320 enough of that gas to have the effect of 218 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.050 dispersing this radiation. So the amount of 219 00:09:31.050 --> 00:09:33.810 dispersion tells you how much 220 00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:36.410 gas there is. That the radio waves have 221 00:09:36.410 --> 00:09:38.330 traveled through. And that was the 222 00:09:38.330 --> 00:09:41.210 breakthrough made about five years ago. By a 223 00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:44.130 team of Australian scientists. Led by 224 00:09:45.170 --> 00:09:47.810 a, um, fantastic young gentleman called 225 00:09:47.810 --> 00:09:50.770 J.P. marchant. I think it was Jean Pierre, 226 00:09:51.280 --> 00:09:54.250 um, uh. A wonderful radio 227 00:09:54.250 --> 00:09:56.770 astronomer in Western Australia. A young man, 228 00:09:57.300 --> 00:10:00.220 uh, two weeks after this breakthrough paper 229 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:03.140 had been, uh, released, he died. 230 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.660 Uh, an absolute tragedy, this huge 231 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:09.540 breakthrough. Yeah. And uh, I think he had a 232 00:10:09.540 --> 00:10:11.060 heart attack, if I remember rightly. 233 00:10:11.380 --> 00:10:12.500 Heidi Campo: It, uh, was probably the paper. 234 00:10:13.859 --> 00:10:15.860 Professor Fred Watson: Whatever it was, um, it was. 235 00:10:16.580 --> 00:10:18.860 It absolutely rocked the Australian 236 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:21.500 astronomical community. This new knowledge 237 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:23.380 that had been created. And he was the lead 238 00:10:23.380 --> 00:10:25.900 author on the paper. Sadly, he died. 239 00:10:26.540 --> 00:10:29.260 Um, however, that work has now been 240 00:10:29.260 --> 00:10:30.300 carried on at other 241 00:10:31.900 --> 00:10:33.420 radio astronomy observatories. 242 00:10:33.420 --> 00:10:36.420 Which brings us to the story today. And 243 00:10:36.420 --> 00:10:39.080 this is a paper that has been released, um, 244 00:10:39.340 --> 00:10:41.580 by astronomers at the center for 245 00:10:41.660 --> 00:10:44.140 Astrophysics, uh, the Harvard 246 00:10:44.140 --> 00:10:47.080 Smithsonian center for Astrophysics, cfa. Uh, 247 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.020 and what they've done is they've taken this 248 00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:51.220 work a step further. Because they've looked 249 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:53.860 at many, many more fast radio bursts. As 250 00:10:53.860 --> 00:10:56.220 you'd expect, these things are coming, um, 251 00:10:56.640 --> 00:10:59.400 um, um, are being constantly observed. 252 00:10:59.540 --> 00:11:02.200 Um, and what they've done is they have 253 00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:05.640 looked again at, uh. The structure 254 00:11:06.280 --> 00:11:08.280 or the constituents of the 255 00:11:08.520 --> 00:11:10.880 intergalactic medium. The space between the 256 00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:13.800 galaxies. And exactly as the Maaschant, 257 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:17.240 uh, uh, uh, work. Um, proposed 258 00:11:17.560 --> 00:11:20.200 five years ago. They're able to use this 259 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.320 as a measure of just what the. 260 00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:26.670 What the contents of the intergalactic 261 00:11:26.670 --> 00:11:29.590 medium are. Ah, and they find that it 262 00:11:29.590 --> 00:11:32.550 is enough to account for what 263 00:11:32.550 --> 00:11:34.430 we call the missing matter. Now, this is not 264 00:11:34.430 --> 00:11:36.030 dark matter that we're talking about. This is 265 00:11:36.030 --> 00:11:38.190 normal matter. Um, protons, 266 00:11:38.510 --> 00:11:41.030 electrons. The normal stuff which we are 267 00:11:41.030 --> 00:11:43.870 familiar with. Which in fact, uh. Is only 268 00:11:44.430 --> 00:11:47.150 something like 20% of the amount of matter in 269 00:11:47.150 --> 00:11:49.710 the universe. The rest of it is the dark 270 00:11:49.710 --> 00:11:52.190 matter. That's something else. But even that 271 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:54.470 normal matter that we know about. When we 272 00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:56.570 look at the calculations as to what should 273 00:11:56.810 --> 00:11:59.330 emerge from the Big Bang. The um, event in 274 00:11:59.330 --> 00:12:02.010 which the universe was formed, we can't find 275 00:12:02.010 --> 00:12:04.690 enough of it. That's why we call it the 276 00:12:04.690 --> 00:12:07.530 missing matter. But it now Turns out 277 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:09.930 that this combined set of 278 00:12:09.930 --> 00:12:12.530 researchers looking at the intergalactic 279 00:12:12.530 --> 00:12:14.970 medium find that there is enough matter in 280 00:12:14.970 --> 00:12:17.450 the intergalactic medium to account for that 281 00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:20.130 missing matter. So this is a problem solved. 282 00:12:20.130 --> 00:12:23.130 As you said at the beginning. Yeah, the two 283 00:12:23.130 --> 00:12:25.530 things absolutely dovetail together. The 284 00:12:25.530 --> 00:12:27.590 predicted amount of matter in the universe is 285 00:12:27.590 --> 00:12:30.470 now exactly what we find when we include 286 00:12:30.550 --> 00:12:33.150 this intergalactic medium. So it's 287 00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:36.070 amazing research. It's, um, very fitting 288 00:12:36.070 --> 00:12:37.830 that it should be our lead story on this 289 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:40.310 edition of Space Nuts, because, um, as I 290 00:12:40.310 --> 00:12:42.430 said, it's got an Australian content. The 291 00:12:42.430 --> 00:12:44.350 thrusters now moved to other observatories, 292 00:12:44.350 --> 00:12:47.310 but we have this global picture now, uh, 293 00:12:47.310 --> 00:12:50.310 of what dark matter can tell us. Sorry, what, 294 00:12:50.410 --> 00:12:53.230 uh, fast radio burst can tell us about. Not 295 00:12:53.230 --> 00:12:55.070 dark matter, but the missing matter of the 296 00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:55.510 universe. 297 00:12:56.310 --> 00:12:59.270 Heidi Campo: Oh, that's wonderful. Uh, this reminds me 298 00:12:59.510 --> 00:13:01.790 when I'm trying to do math unsuccessfully, 299 00:13:01.790 --> 00:13:03.950 and I'm trying to find why I can't get the 300 00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:05.710 right answer and I forgot to carry the one. 301 00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:08.550 It turns out it was there the whole time. The 302 00:13:08.550 --> 00:13:11.030 answer was right there. I just forgot to grab 303 00:13:11.030 --> 00:13:13.270 that one little piece to pull it in to get 304 00:13:13.270 --> 00:13:16.110 the correct answer. But they solved such a 305 00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:19.110 complex, uh, problem. And isn't 306 00:13:19.110 --> 00:13:21.270 that kind of funny sometimes the answers are 307 00:13:21.270 --> 00:13:22.390 right there in plain sight. 308 00:13:22.790 --> 00:13:24.390 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. It's in plain sight. 309 00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:27.430 Heidi Campo: But it's like you said, one atom per. 310 00:13:28.290 --> 00:13:29.250 What did you say it was? 311 00:13:29.410 --> 00:13:32.410 Professor Fred Watson: 1 cubic meter? It's something like that. It's 312 00:13:32.410 --> 00:13:34.890 that kind of level. It's very. A few atoms 313 00:13:34.890 --> 00:13:37.810 per cubic meter, perhaps. Um, but yes, 314 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:40.370 uh, it's in plain sight. But you need. 315 00:13:41.410 --> 00:13:43.290 The thing that's made this possible, this 316 00:13:43.290 --> 00:13:45.170 detection possible is the fact that these 317 00:13:45.170 --> 00:13:47.250 bursts of radiation are so short, 318 00:13:48.130 --> 00:13:50.690 they're milliseconds. And that means that as 319 00:13:50.690 --> 00:13:52.970 they're dispersed, uh, into different 320 00:13:52.970 --> 00:13:54.930 frequency bands as they pass through the, 321 00:13:55.130 --> 00:13:57.890 the, the universe, um, you still can, you can 322 00:13:57.890 --> 00:14:00.130 detect this dispersion of the frequency 323 00:14:00.130 --> 00:14:02.290 bands, whereas with a constant radio signal, 324 00:14:02.290 --> 00:14:04.850 you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that. Um, you 325 00:14:04.850 --> 00:14:07.610 know that you've just got us radiation 326 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:09.290 coming all the time. There's nothing to tell 327 00:14:09.290 --> 00:14:12.170 you whether the, whether the, um, 328 00:14:12.170 --> 00:14:14.530 lower frequencies are slower than the faster 329 00:14:14.530 --> 00:14:16.050 frequencies. There's nothing to tell you 330 00:14:16.050 --> 00:14:18.970 that. Yeah. 331 00:14:19.130 --> 00:14:20.840 Wonderful detective work. Yeah. 332 00:14:21.070 --> 00:14:22.870 Heidi Campo: Oh, yeah, it's fantastic. 333 00:14:22.870 --> 00:14:25.390 So by these radio, uh, astronomers then. 334 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:29.150 So they do radio astronomy. What is your 335 00:14:29.150 --> 00:14:31.510 specialty? And then if you're not. So I also, 336 00:14:31.510 --> 00:14:33.310 I also, I have to make a joke, you know, it's 337 00:14:33.310 --> 00:14:34.910 not Space nuts if there's not a few dad 338 00:14:34.910 --> 00:14:37.149 jokes. And I've Been. I have not been holding 339 00:14:37.149 --> 00:14:40.030 up my end of, um, filling Andrew's shoes. So 340 00:14:40.030 --> 00:14:42.230 you may not be a radio astronomer, but 341 00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:43.950 technically you are an astronomer on the 342 00:14:43.950 --> 00:14:44.350 radio. 343 00:14:45.230 --> 00:14:48.070 Professor Fred Watson: That's correct. Yeah. I like it. I 344 00:14:48.070 --> 00:14:50.510 like it. Yes. Your dad jokes will go far, 345 00:14:50.510 --> 00:14:53.360 Heidi. Um, uh, so 346 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.160 my specialty, um, and 347 00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:59.200 really my work now is in sort of policy and 348 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.520 things of that sort rather than observing. 349 00:15:02.300 --> 00:15:05.240 Uh, but yes, for 40 years I guess 350 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.800 I was, um, in fact more than that, nearly 50 351 00:15:07.800 --> 00:15:09.960 years, I was an optical astronomer. And that 352 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.280 means I use telescopes that look at visible 353 00:15:12.280 --> 00:15:15.160 light, um, so giant telescopes 354 00:15:15.160 --> 00:15:17.960 that have a very shiny mirror at the 355 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:19.480 base of them. In fact, the one I used 356 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.980 principally was the, um, 3.9 meter 357 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:25.460 Anglo Australian Telescope, uh, which we 358 00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:27.900 celebrated the 50th birthday on last year. 359 00:15:27.900 --> 00:15:30.140 Heidi Campo: Oh, happy, happy birthday, telescope. 360 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:34.900 Professor Fred Watson: 0G and I feel fine space 361 00:15:34.900 --> 00:15:35.500 nuts. 362 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:38.140 Heidi Campo: So with the, uh, ESA's Probe 3 363 00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.460 mission, that telescope, would that count as 364 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:42.300 a big mirror telescope? 365 00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:45.580 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, um, it's a small mirror telescope. 366 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:46.780 Heidi Campo: Okay. 367 00:15:46.790 --> 00:15:49.340 Professor Fred Watson: Um, but it is an optical telescope. That's 368 00:15:49.340 --> 00:15:51.580 right. So it's looking at visible light and 369 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:53.320 lovely, uh, segment segue there to the next 370 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:56.200 story, Heidi. Um, so this 371 00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:58.280 again, you know, needs a little bit of 372 00:15:58.280 --> 00:16:01.000 background to, uh, get over its 373 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.240 significance. But this, I think is a 374 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:05.720 fantastic story, uh, because, 375 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:09.000 um, it kind of means, um, that 376 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.160 you can make an eclipse of the sun anytime 377 00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:13.760 you like. Uh, as you know, 378 00:16:13.760 --> 00:16:15.720 eclipses, ah, are rare. 379 00:16:16.230 --> 00:16:19.160 Um, well, in any given place on the Earth, 380 00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:22.040 they're a rare phenomenon. Uh, that's to say 381 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:24.960 when the moon exactly blots out the 382 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.880 disk of the sun or blacks it out. Uh, that 383 00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:29.680 means the Moon's shadow on the Earth's, uh, 384 00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:32.360 surface passes over different 385 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.440 places. Uh, we call it the path of 386 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.720 totality because that's where you see a total 387 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.560 eclipse. And that's only narrow. It's only 50 388 00:16:40.560 --> 00:16:43.440 to 100 kilometers wide, um, 30 to 389 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.260 60 miles, I guess, something like that. So, 390 00:16:46.260 --> 00:16:47.370 uh, um, 391 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.680 ah, it's a rare phenomenon at any one place. 392 00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:54.240 And that's why, uh, when eclipses come along, 393 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.390 people chase all over the world. Uh, 394 00:16:56.420 --> 00:16:59.260 everybody here in Australia, or certainly the 395 00:16:59.260 --> 00:17:01.540 state I'm in, New South Wales, are, uh, 396 00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:04.380 looking forward to July 2028, when an 397 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:07.140 eclipse, um, will be seen from this 398 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:09.980 state. And in fact, the Moon's shadow will 399 00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:12.740 pass directly over Sydney. So Sydney's going 400 00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:14.740 to be the center of the world's astronomers 401 00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:17.260 for, um, a short time. In 402 00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:20.220 2028 it is already, of course, but, uh, in a 403 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:22.780 different sort of way. Anyway. One of the 404 00:17:22.780 --> 00:17:25.060 reasons why scientists Asked 405 00:17:25.669 --> 00:17:28.389 so keen on watching eclipses is 406 00:17:28.389 --> 00:17:31.349 because when the moon's disk blots out the 407 00:17:31.589 --> 00:17:34.309 visible disk of the sun, what you see 408 00:17:34.629 --> 00:17:37.509 is the sun's outer atmosphere. It's corona. 409 00:17:37.989 --> 00:17:40.229 And, uh, this is a, it's a almost 410 00:17:40.229 --> 00:17:43.109 ethereal glow around the sun 411 00:17:43.189 --> 00:17:45.549 which has got structure in it that comes from 412 00:17:45.549 --> 00:17:48.429 the magnetic field of the sun, uh, that 413 00:17:48.429 --> 00:17:50.749 dictates what the corona looks like. There 414 00:17:50.749 --> 00:17:53.189 are many mysteries, uh, that we don't 415 00:17:53.189 --> 00:17:55.669 understand about the corona. One is why its 416 00:17:55.669 --> 00:17:58.250 temperature is so high. Uh, the 417 00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:00.930 sun's surface temperature, around 418 00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:04.170 5,500 degrees. This 419 00:18:04.170 --> 00:18:07.090 is degrees Celsius, the temperature of the 420 00:18:07.090 --> 00:18:09.490 corona, about 15 million degrees. 421 00:18:10.090 --> 00:18:13.010 Um, you're talking about this huge difference 422 00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:15.970 between the bit that we can 423 00:18:15.970 --> 00:18:18.930 see and the bit that is invisible 424 00:18:18.930 --> 00:18:21.810 except when you have an eclipse. 425 00:18:22.050 --> 00:18:24.440 That's because it's very faint compared with, 426 00:18:24.670 --> 00:18:27.030 you know, with the disk of the sun. Uh, and 427 00:18:27.030 --> 00:18:29.230 the mystery is, why is the corona so hot? 428 00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:31.790 So, uh, the corona. And it's thought to be. 429 00:18:32.110 --> 00:18:33.830 We actually think it's all about magnetic 430 00:18:33.830 --> 00:18:36.550 fields again. Anyway, the corona is an 431 00:18:36.550 --> 00:18:39.390 interesting area of study, but you 432 00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:41.710 can't see it unless you're in an eclipse. 433 00:18:42.110 --> 00:18:44.390 Now the problem, you might think, okay, well, 434 00:18:44.390 --> 00:18:46.910 why don't we make a telescope with a little 435 00:18:46.910 --> 00:18:49.510 disk that blots out the light of the sun so 436 00:18:49.510 --> 00:18:51.830 that you can see the corona around it. And 437 00:18:51.830 --> 00:18:53.790 there are such telescopes, they're called 438 00:18:53.790 --> 00:18:56.510 coronagraphs. That's the name, 439 00:18:56.510 --> 00:18:59.510 gives away what it's for. They only work 440 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:02.470 where they really only work in a vacuum 441 00:19:02.870 --> 00:19:05.710 because the atmosphere tends to, um, scatter 442 00:19:05.710 --> 00:19:08.230 the light and blocks out the view of the 443 00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:11.070 corona. So one or two very high mountain 444 00:19:11.070 --> 00:19:13.710 sites have had coronagraphs used on them, and 445 00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:15.750 you can also use them in space. But 446 00:19:16.790 --> 00:19:18.150 they have their limitations. 447 00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:20.510 And this gets us to the story that you 448 00:19:20.510 --> 00:19:23.350 mentioned, Proba 3. This is actually two 449 00:19:23.350 --> 00:19:26.070 satellites which are operated by the European 450 00:19:26.070 --> 00:19:28.850 space agen. Um, and they are 451 00:19:29.090 --> 00:19:31.650 about, if I remember rightly, 150 meters 452 00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:34.370 apart. Uh, they are 453 00:19:34.370 --> 00:19:37.170 arranged so that one has 454 00:19:37.170 --> 00:19:40.090 a sort of disk, one has got a 455 00:19:40.090 --> 00:19:42.770 disk on it. Um, it's disk shaped, if I can 456 00:19:42.770 --> 00:19:45.570 put it that way. And if you line that up with 457 00:19:45.570 --> 00:19:48.090 the sun as seen from the other 458 00:19:48.090 --> 00:19:50.650 spacecraft, which has a telescope on it, 459 00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:52.330 probably with a shiny mirror in there 460 00:19:52.330 --> 00:19:55.150 somewhere, um, and that lets you 461 00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:57.990 blot out the sun's disk. And it gives you 462 00:19:58.070 --> 00:20:01.030 the best view that we have outside 463 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:03.630 a solar eclipse of the solar 464 00:20:03.630 --> 00:20:06.430 corona. Uh, and the reason why this is in the 465 00:20:06.430 --> 00:20:08.950 news at the moment is because we're just 466 00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:11.150 starting to see the first images from this 467 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:13.390 Prober 3 mission. It's a European Space 468 00:20:13.390 --> 00:20:16.070 Agency mission, uh, and we can see 469 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:19.030 the uh, corona, uh, of the sun 470 00:20:19.110 --> 00:20:21.510 in great detail, just as we would 471 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.500 if we were watching an eclipse from the uh, 472 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:27.480 Earth. Uh, and so this is a step 473 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.200 forward. It's a new technology. Uh, it is 474 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.000 going to allow us to monitor the Sun's corona 475 00:20:33.330 --> 00:20:36.240 um, in real time, uh, and for 476 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.910 a long period. I think they're proposing, uh, 477 00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:41.560 is it 1000 hours of observing 478 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.320 of the Sun? Yes, it will create about 479 00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:46.960 1,000 hours of images over its two year 480 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.500 mission and anyone will be able to download 481 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:52.020 the data. So it's a uh, really 482 00:20:52.020 --> 00:20:54.380 interesting step forward by the European 483 00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:56.140 Space Agency and the scientists who are 484 00:20:56.140 --> 00:20:59.060 working uh, on this piece, um, of equipment 485 00:20:59.060 --> 00:21:01.620 to let us see the Sun's corona over the next 486 00:21:01.620 --> 00:21:02.980 two years in great detail. 487 00:21:04.580 --> 00:21:06.620 Heidi Campo: It's fantastic. I'm looking at the images 488 00:21:06.620 --> 00:21:09.320 right now and I've got to say, um, 489 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:12.620 some of you may get this reference. It looks 490 00:21:12.620 --> 00:21:15.580 just like the um, late 90s, early 491 00:21:15.580 --> 00:21:17.620 2000s Windows media player 492 00:21:18.020 --> 00:21:19.050 visualizers. 493 00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:20.160 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. 494 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.120 Heidi Campo: Doesn't it? It's got such a, 495 00:21:23.520 --> 00:21:25.720 interesting hue to it. I feel like I could be 496 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.040 listening to like early 2000s techno music 497 00:21:28.040 --> 00:21:29.120 with these images. 498 00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:32.080 Professor Fred Watson: We can probably provide that somewhere 499 00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:34.480 some space techno. 500 00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:37.400 Heidi Campo: My other question, since this will be um, 501 00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:40.000 available to the public, would this be a good 502 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.640 opportunity for any citizen scientists 503 00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:45.720 to tap into and are there any programs that 504 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.720 you know of that people may want to be paying 505 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.730 attention to if they are interested in 506 00:21:49.730 --> 00:21:51.290 getting involved in citizen science? 507 00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:54.130 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's a great question. And um, you 508 00:21:54.130 --> 00:21:56.970 know there is a wonderful array of 509 00:21:56.970 --> 00:21:59.600 citizen science projects which are ah, 510 00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.010 related to astronomy, um, 511 00:22:03.560 --> 00:22:06.330 um, various ones. The zooniverse is the 512 00:22:06.330 --> 00:22:08.890 sort of, um, I guess you've probably heard of 513 00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:11.810 the zooniverse, which is a kind of cluster of 514 00:22:11.810 --> 00:22:14.420 citizen science projects, um, 515 00:22:14.590 --> 00:22:16.910 that um, brings to bear 516 00:22:18.110 --> 00:22:20.830 the resources of our citizen uh, science 517 00:22:20.990 --> 00:22:23.790 scientists, uh, to bear on astronomical 518 00:22:23.790 --> 00:22:26.310 data. And you can bet your life that there 519 00:22:26.310 --> 00:22:29.150 will be, I don't know, uh, particularly that 520 00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:31.030 this is the case, but you can bet your life 521 00:22:31.030 --> 00:22:33.590 that there will be people poring over these 522 00:22:33.590 --> 00:22:36.340 coronagraph Images from Probe 3 looking uh, 523 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:39.510 to see what we might discover about the 524 00:22:39.510 --> 00:22:42.310 solar corona. Um, it is uh, I think it's 525 00:22:42.310 --> 00:22:45.270 a, uh, really, if I can put it this 526 00:22:45.270 --> 00:22:47.070 way, it's a project that is ripe for 527 00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:49.710 exploitation with citizen science. 528 00:22:50.830 --> 00:22:53.350 Heidi Campo: Yeah, and I'm such a, you guys have probably 529 00:22:53.350 --> 00:22:55.230 heard me talk about citizen science programs 530 00:22:55.230 --> 00:22:56.950 on here before because I'm such a big 531 00:22:56.950 --> 00:22:59.590 advocate for everybody getting involved 532 00:22:59.590 --> 00:23:02.190 Because I, uh, you know, don't save it for 533 00:23:02.190 --> 00:23:04.910 the brilliant people with the PhDs. We love 534 00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:07.270 you, Fred. You're wonderful. But if we can 535 00:23:07.270 --> 00:23:09.950 export some of this work to the whole pool of 536 00:23:09.950 --> 00:23:12.430 talent, and I've always learned this, the 537 00:23:12.430 --> 00:23:14.610 more I get involved in the space industry is 538 00:23:14.610 --> 00:23:17.410 don't let. Don't let you know, don't be the 539 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:19.530 person to tell yourself, no, I can't do that. 540 00:23:19.530 --> 00:23:21.690 Let somebody else tell you. Just start 541 00:23:21.690 --> 00:23:24.250 pursuing it. If you're interested in it, get 542 00:23:24.250 --> 00:23:26.650 involved. There's so many opportunities and 543 00:23:26.650 --> 00:23:29.370 there's so much to learn. We still have 544 00:23:29.930 --> 00:23:32.930 more questions than we have answers. So there 545 00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:35.050 is absolutely. Here's a pun. Here's another 546 00:23:35.050 --> 00:23:37.170 pun. I'm. I got two for them today. There's 547 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:40.090 space for you. There's space for you to get 548 00:23:40.090 --> 00:23:42.970 involved in space. We need your 549 00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:45.190 help. So citizen science program programs, 550 00:23:45.610 --> 00:23:48.150 um, are a fantastic way 551 00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:51.390 to get involved. And I think this is 552 00:23:51.390 --> 00:23:53.470 a little bit more of my bumpier segue. Unless 553 00:23:53.470 --> 00:23:54.950 you had something you wanted to say, Fred. 554 00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:57.150 Professor Fred Watson: No, no, I'm just a big fan of cities and 555 00:23:57.150 --> 00:23:59.190 science as well. I think it's fabulous what 556 00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:01.510 is achieved by that. Um, and I 557 00:24:01.510 --> 00:24:04.070 wholeheartedly agree with your comments 558 00:24:04.070 --> 00:24:06.430 there, Heidi, but, yeah, ah, I think you had 559 00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:07.950 a nice segue coming up there, which I 560 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:09.030 probably ruined now. 561 00:24:09.190 --> 00:24:10.750 Heidi Campo: Oh, no, I think it was going to be a pretty 562 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:13.630 bumpy one. So this is. Okay. Um, I will say 563 00:24:13.630 --> 00:24:16.340 I do know that actually, um, some. 564 00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:19.290 I remember because I got some, um, 565 00:24:19.290 --> 00:24:21.540 they called it the NASA TOPS program. 566 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:24.500 TOPS Standard for something. Open science 567 00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:26.520 repository, something like that. But it's, 568 00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:29.460 um, it's just a casual certification 569 00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:31.419 that you can get online from. It's an 570 00:24:31.419 --> 00:24:33.180 official NASA thing that you can get and just 571 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:35.380 put it on your LinkedIn. But they just talked 572 00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:37.260 about a lot of different citizen science 573 00:24:37.260 --> 00:24:40.140 programs. And I believe I remember reading, 574 00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:42.740 if I, If I read this correctly, a, um. 575 00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:45.740 Lot of breakthroughs have happened 576 00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:48.590 with hurricane technology and, um, 577 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.640 early detection of hurricanes through citizen 578 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.600 science. Because that was one of the first 579 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.800 places that we tapped into citizen science. 580 00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:00.080 Don't quote me on the decades. I'm terrible 581 00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:01.720 at my history. But the first, 582 00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:05.640 um, cited use of citizen 583 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.200 science was the former 584 00:25:08.600 --> 00:25:11.400 belief was that wind 585 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.100 always moved one direction because if you're 586 00:25:14.100 --> 00:25:15.940 standing in the wind, it's coming at you one 587 00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:18.900 direction. And this guy was the I. And I. I 588 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:20.980 wish I had his name. I'm so sorry. But he was 589 00:25:20.980 --> 00:25:23.260 like, hey, I think wind moves in different 590 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:26.220 patterns. And so what he did is he, 591 00:25:26.620 --> 00:25:28.780 um, had a weather event and he had People 592 00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:31.780 posted all over the place and 593 00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:33.820 he's like, tell me which direction the wind 594 00:25:33.820 --> 00:25:36.580 was moving. And they reported back to him 595 00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:39.310 and he discovered that yes, the 596 00:25:39.310 --> 00:25:41.150 weather was not always. The wind was not 597 00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:43.260 always moving one direction. So that was uh. 598 00:25:43.260 --> 00:25:44.510 I don't know if you know more about that 599 00:25:44.510 --> 00:25:44.790 story. 600 00:25:44.870 --> 00:25:47.810 Professor Fred Watson: I don't know that but that exactly. It's uh, 601 00:25:47.810 --> 00:25:50.230 you know, it, that's. It's wonderful when 602 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:53.150 people have an idea like that and managed to 603 00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.870 muster the resources that um, he clearly did 604 00:25:55.870 --> 00:25:58.550 and get the results. And citizen science is a 605 00:25:58.550 --> 00:25:59.190 lot like that. 606 00:26:01.510 --> 00:26:03.670 Okay, we checked all four systems and. 607 00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:05.900 Heidi Campo: Team with a go space navigation. Yeah. 608 00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:09.220 So here's my bumpy segue to the last 609 00:26:09.220 --> 00:26:11.780 article. Um, I guess we can say if we're 610 00:26:11.780 --> 00:26:13.860 keeping it with the detective, uh, metaphor 611 00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:16.700 for this episode is this is a clue. So we 612 00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:19.540 had the first story was we've 613 00:26:19.540 --> 00:26:22.060 solved something. The second one is we have 614 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:24.980 um. Well I guess the second one was the clue. 615 00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.620 And this last one is there is a mystery. This 616 00:26:27.620 --> 00:26:30.620 is a open case yet to be solved, which 617 00:26:30.620 --> 00:26:33.100 is a mysterious link between 618 00:26:33.100 --> 00:26:35.600 Earth's magnetism and 619 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:38.720 oxygen. So this is an open 620 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:40.480 mystery. We don't know the answers. 621 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.400 Professor Fred Watson: We don't uh, um. And it 622 00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:45.840 is um, really quite a significant 623 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.540 result Heidi, that um, 624 00:26:49.450 --> 00:26:52.080 uh, has come from scientists. Actually 625 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.280 One of them is at my alma mater, the 626 00:26:54.280 --> 00:26:55.880 University of St. Andrews in Scotland, 627 00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:58.680 Scotland's oldest university, founded in 628 00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.320 1413. I was there shortly afterwards, as I 629 00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:04.230 always tell people. Um, um. It's 630 00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:07.010 uh, the university uh, of um, of St. 631 00:27:07.010 --> 00:27:09.530 Andrews and also uh, scientists at the 632 00:27:09.530 --> 00:27:11.450 University of leed. So this is work in the 633 00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:13.890 uk. Um, the 634 00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:17.140 story is uh, 635 00:27:17.410 --> 00:27:20.210 basically uh, that we have 636 00:27:20.610 --> 00:27:22.930 this trend, uh, that is 637 00:27:22.930 --> 00:27:24.440 detectable um 638 00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:28.210 by techniques that 639 00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:31.400 are uh, quite um, 640 00:27:32.620 --> 00:27:34.180 remote from what we do in the world of 641 00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:37.070 astronomy. Uh, it's um, 642 00:27:37.260 --> 00:27:37.980 what was it? 643 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:42.060 Biogeochemistry I think was one of them. 644 00:27:42.540 --> 00:27:44.860 So what scientists have looked at, 645 00:27:45.570 --> 00:27:48.540 uh, what you might call proxies, 646 00:27:48.850 --> 00:27:51.780 uh, um, things that tell you 647 00:27:51.780 --> 00:27:54.420 about something else. And uh, for 648 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:57.300 example one of the examples is this, uh, 649 00:27:57.300 --> 00:28:00.120 if you look back through the geological 650 00:28:00.120 --> 00:28:02.480 record you can find evidence 651 00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:05.600 in the geological strata of 652 00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:08.600 periods where there were lots and lots of 653 00:28:08.600 --> 00:28:11.560 wildfires, um, what we call bushfires here in 654 00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:14.240 Australia, forest fires elsewhere. 655 00:28:14.560 --> 00:28:17.040 So you can find evidence of that. And 656 00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:20.000 the scientists are saying that is a proxy 657 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.200 for the number of these wildfires, is a 658 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.540 proxy for the amount of oxygen that was in 659 00:28:25.540 --> 00:28:28.020 the atmosphere at the time. Because 660 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.300 uh, wildfires spread much more readily 661 00:28:31.300 --> 00:28:33.820 if you've got an oxygen rich atmosphere than 662 00:28:33.820 --> 00:28:35.220 they do if you've got less. 663 00:28:35.300 --> 00:28:36.340 Heidi Campo: Oh, interesting. 664 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:39.620 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. So it's that kind of work that's been 665 00:28:39.620 --> 00:28:42.370 done. Also, um, 666 00:28:42.370 --> 00:28:44.220 something that's a little bit more directly 667 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.180 measurable, uh, is the history of 668 00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:49.700 the Earth's magnetic field. And that's one of 669 00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:51.460 the ways that we know that the Earth's 670 00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:54.420 magnetic poles reverse every, probably 671 00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:56.020 three or four times every million years, 672 00:28:56.020 --> 00:28:58.500 something like that. Uh, so the, the 673 00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:00.340 magnetic field of the Earth is something that 674 00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:03.220 we can get from the alignment of grains 675 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:05.700 of crystals in rocks. Um, 676 00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:08.500 and that tells you, you know, how well these 677 00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:10.980 are aligned, tells you about the intensity of 678 00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:13.940 the magnetic field. Excuse me. So 679 00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.500 this group of scientists. Sorry, I've got, 680 00:29:17.330 --> 00:29:19.740 uh, an oxygen rich, uh, throat at the moment. 681 00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:22.320 It's wanting to come. So these groups of 682 00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:24.880 scientists have looked at something that 683 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.560 nobody would have expected, uh, to 684 00:29:27.560 --> 00:29:30.240 correlate, but they find that 685 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:32.880 there is a correlation between, 686 00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:35.920 and this is looking back over half a billion 687 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.040 years. So they're looking back in time over 688 00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:41.040 500 million years. When you plot the strength 689 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.840 of the Earth's, uh, magnetic field over that 690 00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:46.600 period and compare it with the 691 00:29:46.600 --> 00:29:49.160 amount of oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere 692 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.120 over that period, the two graphs match 693 00:29:52.520 --> 00:29:55.480 very, very closely. Um, there's 694 00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.480 clearly a link, uh, between the 695 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.640 amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, the 696 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:02.600 intensity of the magnetic field. 697 00:30:03.639 --> 00:30:05.400 The mystery is, 698 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.240 is that link telling you that 699 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.200 more magnetism means more oxygen and, 700 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.510 or more oxygen means more magnetism? 701 00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:16.940 Or is it telling you that there is something 702 00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:19.900 else going on that affects both the magnetic 703 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:22.820 field and the oxygen as well, and 704 00:30:23.060 --> 00:30:25.900 affects them both in the same way? So some 705 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:28.420 other process that we don't really understand 706 00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:31.540 yet. So a really big mystery, but 707 00:30:31.620 --> 00:30:34.020 the reason why I'm mentioning this on, um, 708 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:36.340 space knots is that it feeds into 709 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:39.380 our understanding of what might, 710 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.830 uh, constitute places where life evolves 711 00:30:42.830 --> 00:30:44.910 elsewhere in the universe. Because we know, 712 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.030 ah, most of the oxygen in the Earth's 713 00:30:47.030 --> 00:30:49.910 atmosphere actually comes from biological 714 00:30:49.910 --> 00:30:52.350 processes. It's what we call a biomarker. 715 00:30:52.350 --> 00:30:53.950 Somebody looking at the Earth from outside 716 00:30:54.110 --> 00:30:56.750 and seeing that much oxygen, 717 00:30:57.190 --> 00:31:00.030 uh, if they have life of the same 718 00:31:00.030 --> 00:31:01.830 kind that we have, they could say, yes, 719 00:31:01.830 --> 00:31:04.410 that's a biomarker that is marking, uh. 720 00:31:04.590 --> 00:31:06.430 Heidi Campo: Similar to K2 18B, right? 721 00:31:06.910 --> 00:31:09.830 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. That's right. Although 722 00:31:09.830 --> 00:31:12.180 it was, uh, what was it? Dimethyl 723 00:31:12.490 --> 00:31:15.130 sulfide was the biomarker that was 724 00:31:15.370 --> 00:31:17.450 caused for the exoplanet 725 00:31:17.450 --> 00:31:20.170 K2.18b, which is still of great 726 00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.490 interest to astrobiologists. We don't really 727 00:31:22.570 --> 00:31:25.140 know first of all whether that, uh, 728 00:31:25.850 --> 00:31:28.850 um, finding of dimethyl sulfide is real. 729 00:31:28.850 --> 00:31:31.330 Or whether it's being confused with some 730 00:31:31.330 --> 00:31:34.170 other molecule. The signature in the spectrum 731 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.690 that the James Webb telescope took, um, and 732 00:31:36.690 --> 00:31:38.250 we don't actually know whether that is 733 00:31:38.250 --> 00:31:41.150 genuinely a biomarker in 734 00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:43.510 an environment different from the Earth's. So 735 00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:46.270 lots of questions attached to that too. But 736 00:31:47.150 --> 00:31:49.830 this new finding, the link between magnetism 737 00:31:49.830 --> 00:31:52.350 and oxygen, whatever causes it, 738 00:31:52.790 --> 00:31:55.630 uh, may be something that will feed into 739 00:31:56.030 --> 00:31:58.670 the understanding of the way life processes 740 00:31:58.670 --> 00:32:01.670 work, uh, by astrobiologists and perhaps 741 00:32:01.670 --> 00:32:04.150 will tell us more about the kinds of places 742 00:32:04.150 --> 00:32:06.570 that we might look for extraterrestrial life, 743 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:09.480 uh, when we get the next generation of giant 744 00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:12.280 telescopes with big shiny mirrors. Uh, and 745 00:32:12.280 --> 00:32:14.160 the biggest shiny mirror of all is going to 746 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.680 be the European Extremely Large Telescope. 747 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.280 Should come online in 2028. Its mirror is 748 00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:21.920 39 meters in diameter. 749 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.240 It's huge. Anyway. 750 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.530 Heidi Campo: Yeah, well, I mean, uh, 751 00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:29.920 this is, uh, important to consider. This is 752 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.320 one of the first things they teach you 753 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:33.510 anytime you go to any kind of, of STEM 754 00:32:33.510 --> 00:32:35.710 related program is okay. 755 00:32:35.710 --> 00:32:37.950 Correlation does not mean causation. 756 00:32:38.190 --> 00:32:38.710 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. 757 00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:40.950 Heidi Campo: And you said this. I mean, it's like we don't 758 00:32:40.950 --> 00:32:43.750 know if it's this, this, or this. And, 759 00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:46.070 and it's. I mean, I'm looking at the trend 760 00:32:46.070 --> 00:32:47.790 lines right now. I mean, they are 761 00:32:49.070 --> 00:32:51.350 right there. It's so easy to jump to the 762 00:32:51.350 --> 00:32:54.230 conclusion and say, yeah, these are so 763 00:32:54.230 --> 00:32:56.590 highly correlated. But then we just have to 764 00:32:56.590 --> 00:32:59.160 remind ourselves why. And we don't know. This 765 00:32:59.160 --> 00:32:59.920 one's a mystery. 766 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.360 Professor Fred Watson: It's a mystery. And, um, well, I'm sure 767 00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:05.480 it will be the focus of a lot of really 768 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.720 interesting research over the next year or 769 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.400 two. Maybe Heidi, you and I'll talk about 770 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:13.000 whatever they find in a Space Nuts down the 771 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.840 track sometime. Uh, but yeah, we should, 772 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:17.600 um, keep an eye on this one because it's a 773 00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:18.640 very exciting result. 774 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.720 Heidi Campo: Well, I think that that is a good segue to 775 00:33:22.800 --> 00:33:24.920 kick it back to you, our listeners. We've 776 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:26.720 talked about a lot of fun things, 777 00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:29.660 questions, answers, solutions, and more 778 00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:32.580 questions and citizen science in there. Um, 779 00:33:32.580 --> 00:33:34.020 I think we should just take this time to 780 00:33:34.020 --> 00:33:36.300 encourage you guys to stay involved because 781 00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:39.340 you can be a part of these breakthroughs. 782 00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:42.140 And then instead of writing in just simple 783 00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:44.100 questions here on SpaceNets, you can also 784 00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:47.100 say, hey, as a citizen scientist myself, I 785 00:33:47.100 --> 00:33:49.180 have discovered this. What do you think about 786 00:33:49.180 --> 00:33:51.420 these findings? And I think that would be 787 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:53.220 really neat to hear those kinds of statements 788 00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:53.670 from you guys. 789 00:33:55.020 --> 00:33:56.940 Professor Fred Watson: Absolutely. We could then tell the world. 790 00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:59.100 Remember where you heard it first here on 791 00:33:59.100 --> 00:33:59.980 Space Nuts. 792 00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:03.820 Heidi Campo: What a perfect, perfect ending. Um, Fred, 793 00:34:03.820 --> 00:34:05.580 this has been such a fun conversation. 794 00:34:05.580 --> 00:34:08.500 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you so much My pleasure always, Heidi. 795 00:34:08.500 --> 00:34:09.939 And, uh, I look forward to talking to you 796 00:34:09.939 --> 00:34:10.380 next time. 797 00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:13.700 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts 798 00:34:13.700 --> 00:34:16.700 podcast, available at 799 00:34:16.700 --> 00:34:19.550 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, I Heart 800 00:34:19.550 --> 00:34:22.270 Radio, or your favorite podcast player. You 801 00:34:22.270 --> 00:34:23.350 can also stream on 802 00:34:23.350 --> 00:34:26.310 demand at bitesz.com This has been another 803 00:34:26.310 --> 00:34:28.390 quality podcast production from 804 00:34:28.390 --> 00:34:29.510 bitesz. com.