WEBVTT 0 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.680 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another episode of 1 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:03.418 Space Nuts. 2 00:00:03.582 --> 00:00:06.400 Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 3 00:00:06.640 --> 00:00:09.360 10, 9. Ignition 4 00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:12.219 sequence. Star space nuts. 5, 4, 3, 5 00:00:12.290 --> 00:00:15.059 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 6 00:00:15.130 --> 00:00:17.520 3, 2, 1. Space nuts. 7 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:19.360 Astronauts report it feels good. 8 00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:23.080 Heidi Campo: I am your host, filling in for the beloved 9 00:00:23.080 --> 00:00:25.920 Andrew Dunkley. And my name is Heidi Campo. 10 00:00:26.380 --> 00:00:28.940 Joining us today is Professor Fred Watson, 11 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:31.940 astronomer at large. And you are at 12 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:33.660 large. You're still at your conference? 13 00:00:34.260 --> 00:00:36.620 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's correct, yes. Um, still in. It's 14 00:00:36.620 --> 00:00:38.300 actually turning out to be rainy Adelaide 15 00:00:38.300 --> 00:00:40.340 today. There's, uh, quite heavy showers going 16 00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:41.900 through, which I can see out of the window. 17 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:45.340 Um, and, um, hopefully, uh, I'll get a 18 00:00:45.340 --> 00:00:47.580 dry spell to walk up to the university to 19 00:00:48.220 --> 00:00:50.300 connect with my colleagues on the conference. 20 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:52.740 Uh, I do have an umbrella, so that's all 21 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:55.150 right. Being 22 00:00:55.790 --> 00:00:57.710 British, you always carry an umbrella. 23 00:00:57.710 --> 00:00:58.110 That's. 24 00:00:58.110 --> 00:01:00.710 Heidi Campo: I was gonna say you're good at astronomy and 25 00:01:00.710 --> 00:01:03.470 planetary science, bringing an umbrella. 26 00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:05.670 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. I should show you my umbrella. 27 00:01:05.670 --> 00:01:07.350 Actually, I can't do it now. But, um, it's 28 00:01:07.350 --> 00:01:09.710 got all the northern constellations on it. 29 00:01:09.710 --> 00:01:12.630 It's lovely. You flick it open and 30 00:01:12.630 --> 00:01:15.060 suddenly there's the sky in front of you, uh, 31 00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:17.470 all marked out, which came from 32 00:01:17.470 --> 00:01:20.230 Jodrell bank in Northern England, which is 33 00:01:20.230 --> 00:01:22.790 the home of the Lovell Radio telescope, which 34 00:01:22.790 --> 00:01:25.530 was the biggest, uh, radio. It was telescope 35 00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:28.450 in the world and it was built in 1957. So, 36 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:28.770 yeah. 37 00:01:28.770 --> 00:01:31.650 Heidi Campo: Wow. Well, that's a fun, fun fact to start 38 00:01:31.650 --> 00:01:32.330 off the episode. 39 00:01:32.330 --> 00:01:35.130 And I guess speaking of radio, I will brag 40 00:01:35.370 --> 00:01:38.330 for us. Before we started recording, Fred 41 00:01:38.330 --> 00:01:40.970 had mentioned to me that a story that we just 42 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:43.410 covered on the last episode is hitting the 43 00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:46.170 radio with, uh, quite a lot of 44 00:01:46.170 --> 00:01:49.050 popularity. But you guys heard it here first. 45 00:01:49.770 --> 00:01:52.650 And, um, if you missed our last episode, 46 00:01:52.650 --> 00:01:55.370 you should go, uh, check that out. But just 47 00:01:55.370 --> 00:01:58.270 talking about the Big Crunch, and, um, 48 00:01:58.270 --> 00:02:00.770 we covered it thoroughly on the last episode, 49 00:02:00.770 --> 00:02:03.610 and it's the hot news in astronomy now, so 50 00:02:03.610 --> 00:02:06.290 you can go back and listen to that one. But 51 00:02:06.290 --> 00:02:09.250 we do have a lot of great stories in the 52 00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:11.490 queue for today as well that you're also 53 00:02:11.490 --> 00:02:13.970 going to want to hear. And, you know, this is 54 00:02:13.970 --> 00:02:16.090 funny because it's like, this is a science 55 00:02:16.090 --> 00:02:18.690 podcast, but I feel like the articles today 56 00:02:18.690 --> 00:02:21.190 are particularly Science Science rich. 57 00:02:21.270 --> 00:02:24.070 There's a lot of, um, and. 58 00:02:24.070 --> 00:02:26.350 And great variety too, Fred. These are going 59 00:02:26.350 --> 00:02:27.710 to be some really fun articles. 60 00:02:27.710 --> 00:02:30.590 So today, I don't even know I understand the 61 00:02:30.590 --> 00:02:33.350 word bubbles and I understand Milky Way, 62 00:02:33.670 --> 00:02:36.589 but I don't know what a Fermi bubble is 63 00:02:36.589 --> 00:02:39.030 that we have discovered in the Milky Way. And 64 00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:41.070 can you just tell Us Why they named it the 65 00:02:41.070 --> 00:02:41.830 Milky Way? 66 00:02:42.310 --> 00:02:43.910 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, um, you know, I. 67 00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:46.310 Heidi Campo: There's a meme on the Internet where it's 68 00:02:46.310 --> 00:02:47.910 like, who just looked up at that and thought, 69 00:02:48.230 --> 00:02:49.270 mmm, milky. 70 00:02:50.470 --> 00:02:53.310 Professor Fred Watson: The Greeks, I think, um, uh, um, and 71 00:02:53.310 --> 00:02:55.790 the Romans. It goes back. It's probably, you 72 00:02:55.790 --> 00:02:58.670 know, it's lost in time because it's got 73 00:02:58.670 --> 00:03:01.150 this milky appearance. Via lacta, it's called 74 00:03:01.150 --> 00:03:04.070 in Latin, uh, Milky Way. Uh, and, 75 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.110 um, uh. So ancient people looked 76 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:09.630 at it, thought it looked milky, called it the 77 00:03:09.630 --> 00:03:12.510 Milky Way, telling it like it is. And 78 00:03:12.510 --> 00:03:14.960 it's. And it's been known as that, 79 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:18.040 um, ever since. And I think it's 80 00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:19.880 delightful that we still call it that. I 81 00:03:19.880 --> 00:03:22.760 mean, we technically we see it as. It's the 82 00:03:22.760 --> 00:03:24.520 edge, you know, the thickness of our galaxy 83 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:26.040 that we're looking through when we see the 84 00:03:26.040 --> 00:03:29.000 Milky Way. It was Galileo who first saw that 85 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.680 it was made of stars and not congealed milk 86 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:34.360 or something like that. Uh, when he, when he 87 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.360 perfected the telescope or perfected his 88 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.950 telescope in 16, 1609, uh, 89 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:41.800 towards the end of 1609, early 1610, he 90 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:43.920 saw it was made of stars. 91 00:03:44.820 --> 00:03:47.300 And that was, um, the first time anybody knew 92 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:49.920 really what it was made of. And that was, um, 93 00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:52.740 you know, only, excuse me, 400 94 00:03:52.740 --> 00:03:55.380 years or so ago. So it's quite a recent 95 00:03:55.380 --> 00:03:57.900 discovery that it's actually, uh, made of 96 00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:00.180 celestial objects rather than something, 97 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:03.300 um, almost supernatural, which I'm sure 98 00:04:03.540 --> 00:04:05.580 was very much on the minds of people before 99 00:04:05.580 --> 00:04:08.300 that. Supernatural milk from supernatural 100 00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:10.020 cows, probably. Excuse me. 101 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:12.420 Heidi Campo: Yeah, I've always thought. I mean, it does. I 102 00:04:12.420 --> 00:04:14.220 guess I don't look at it and think milky. I 103 00:04:14.220 --> 00:04:16.580 think maybe Sparkle Way or something. But now 104 00:04:16.580 --> 00:04:18.340 that, uh, you know, thinking of it through 105 00:04:18.340 --> 00:04:20.460 the lens of ancient people, that makes sense. 106 00:04:22.700 --> 00:04:24.860 Professor Fred Watson: A lot of, um, you know, what you might call 107 00:04:24.860 --> 00:04:26.540 first nations cultures throughout the world 108 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:28.780 see it differently. Here in, uh, Australia, 109 00:04:29.420 --> 00:04:32.380 a lot of the Aboriginal people. And 110 00:04:32.380 --> 00:04:35.180 there are something like 400 different groups 111 00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:37.300 of Aboriginal people within Australia. It's a 112 00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:39.510 very. Because the. A big continent and these 113 00:04:39.510 --> 00:04:42.310 are small nations dotted throughout. But 114 00:04:42.310 --> 00:04:45.170 many of them saw it as a celestial river. Uh, 115 00:04:45.230 --> 00:04:46.990 oh, that's beautiful. You know, so. And that. 116 00:04:46.990 --> 00:04:49.070 And you can kind of get that because often 117 00:04:50.030 --> 00:04:52.750 rivers in Australia, uh, uh, are milky and 118 00:04:52.830 --> 00:04:54.629 the water's sometimes quite milky in 119 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:56.830 appearance. So it sort of all makes sense. 120 00:04:57.550 --> 00:04:58.110 Heidi Campo: Hmm. 121 00:04:58.590 --> 00:05:00.590 Well, I guess today we're starting off by, 122 00:05:00.590 --> 00:05:02.270 uh, talking about milk bubbles. 123 00:05:03.630 --> 00:05:05.350 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's, you know, the froth on your 124 00:05:05.350 --> 00:05:08.210 milk, um, which is very nice on a coffee or 125 00:05:08.210 --> 00:05:09.330 something like that. Anyway, that's a 126 00:05:09.330 --> 00:05:11.810 different story. So what are these things? 127 00:05:11.810 --> 00:05:14.210 Fermi bubbles. You mentioned them. Um, they, 128 00:05:14.850 --> 00:05:16.450 uh, and I'm not actually sure. I thought you 129 00:05:16.450 --> 00:05:17.890 were going to ask me who named them and I 130 00:05:17.890 --> 00:05:19.210 don't know the answer to that, so I'm very 131 00:05:19.210 --> 00:05:22.190 glad you didn't. Um, the um, 132 00:05:22.190 --> 00:05:25.010 Fermi bubbles are their structures 133 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:28.090 which are uh, thousands of light 134 00:05:28.090 --> 00:05:30.940 years across, um, 135 00:05:30.940 --> 00:05:33.890 and they, they, we see them in, in 136 00:05:33.890 --> 00:05:36.810 radio telescopes. They're bubbles of hot 137 00:05:36.810 --> 00:05:39.550 gas. And um, and we think they're 138 00:05:39.550 --> 00:05:42.230 caused by sort of explosive activity 139 00:05:42.710 --> 00:05:45.710 in the center of our galaxy because we 140 00:05:45.710 --> 00:05:48.500 know that the center of our galaxy hosts uh, 141 00:05:48.510 --> 00:05:50.950 a 4 million solar mass black hole, 142 00:05:51.280 --> 00:05:54.150 um, which occasionally gobbles up material, 143 00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:57.270 um, uh, you know, approaches it and 144 00:05:57.270 --> 00:05:59.270 gets sucked into the accretion disk and 145 00:05:59.430 --> 00:06:01.790 whizzes around at high speeds radiating X 146 00:06:01.790 --> 00:06:03.150 rays and things of that sort and then get 147 00:06:03.150 --> 00:06:06.070 sucked uh, into the black hole. What doesn't 148 00:06:06.070 --> 00:06:08.690 get sucked in squirts upwards, uh, and 149 00:06:08.690 --> 00:06:11.370 downwards, uh, at the poles of rotation of 150 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:14.210 the black hole, uh, to form jets. That's the 151 00:06:14.210 --> 00:06:16.450 way black holes behave when they're active, 152 00:06:16.450 --> 00:06:17.930 when they're gobbling stuff up. They form 153 00:06:17.930 --> 00:06:19.410 these jets which come about because of 154 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:21.730 magnetic fields. So we think that the Fermi 155 00:06:21.730 --> 00:06:24.330 bubbles are the result of uh, previous 156 00:06:24.330 --> 00:06:27.090 outbursts in the galaxy's history. They've 157 00:06:27.090 --> 00:06:30.090 only been known for 15 years. Heidi 158 00:06:31.290 --> 00:06:34.090 20, uh, 10 I think. They were first 159 00:06:34.090 --> 00:06:36.890 picked up by uh, gamma ray telescopes. So 160 00:06:36.970 --> 00:06:39.310 gamma rays are very short wa wavelength 161 00:06:39.310 --> 00:06:41.190 radiation at the opposite end of the spectrum 162 00:06:41.190 --> 00:06:43.590 from radio waves, uh, but they are 163 00:06:43.590 --> 00:06:46.070 symptomatic of high energy processes. So 164 00:06:46.070 --> 00:06:48.710 things that are very hot, uh, or you know, 165 00:06:48.710 --> 00:06:51.390 very active, like center of a 166 00:06:51.390 --> 00:06:53.350 galaxy with an active black hole in it, 167 00:06:53.350 --> 00:06:55.269 they're going to produce gamma rays as well. 168 00:06:55.650 --> 00:06:57.990 Um, so, um, violent events. 169 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:01.230 They've been likened to volcanic eruptions 170 00:07:01.230 --> 00:07:03.590 from the center of uh, our galaxy forming 171 00:07:03.590 --> 00:07:05.590 these bubbles of material moving away 172 00:07:06.460 --> 00:07:09.340 from uh, the galactic center. They're both 173 00:07:09.340 --> 00:07:12.260 north and south of the center of the 174 00:07:12.260 --> 00:07:15.180 galaxy. Um, but some new 175 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:18.180 observations using uh, the Green 176 00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:20.700 bank telescope, uh, National Science 177 00:07:20.700 --> 00:07:23.420 foundation over there in your country, uh, is 178 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:26.420 a team, uh, from um, I can't 179 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:28.620 remember which university. They're from North 180 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:31.340 Carolina State University and some other 181 00:07:31.660 --> 00:07:34.280 institutions. What they've done is 182 00:07:34.280 --> 00:07:36.480 they've used uh, the Green bank radio 183 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:39.240 telescope to get basically really 184 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.990 high, uh, fidelity, uh, 185 00:07:41.990 --> 00:07:44.520 images and data on 186 00:07:45.640 --> 00:07:48.440 the composition of the gases within 187 00:07:48.440 --> 00:07:50.160 them, the speed that they're moving, things 188 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.000 of that sort. Uh, um, so 189 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:54.760 they've done what we would call a survey of 190 00:07:54.760 --> 00:07:57.640 the Fermi bubbles. Ah, and that lets 191 00:07:57.640 --> 00:08:00.510 them pick out fine details um, now 192 00:08:00.510 --> 00:08:02.110 the thing about the Fermi bubbles, as I said, 193 00:08:02.110 --> 00:08:03.910 they're very high energy. Their temperature, 194 00:08:04.430 --> 00:08:07.350 uh, within them is roughly a 195 00:08:07.350 --> 00:08:09.270 million degrees or so. 196 00:08:10.190 --> 00:08:13.030 Uh, 1 million degrees Celsius or Kelvin. 197 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:15.670 Uh, it's a lot more in Fahrenheit, but it's 198 00:08:15.750 --> 00:08:18.150 about a million degrees. But 199 00:08:18.710 --> 00:08:21.710 there are clouds of gas within those 200 00:08:21.710 --> 00:08:23.990 bubbles, um, which are 201 00:08:25.270 --> 00:08:28.140 significant. You know, they're big clouds of 202 00:08:28.140 --> 00:08:31.060 gas. They weigh um, thousands of times 203 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:33.020 the mass of the Sun. They're within the 204 00:08:33.020 --> 00:08:36.020 bubbles, uh, roughly. The uh, ones they've 205 00:08:36.020 --> 00:08:38.340 been identified are about 12,000 light years 206 00:08:38.340 --> 00:08:40.020 from the center of the Milky Way. 207 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:43.820 And it's amazing thing, given that the 208 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:45.660 temperature of the Fermi bubbles is a million 209 00:08:45.660 --> 00:08:48.660 degrees, these things are cold. 210 00:08:49.300 --> 00:08:52.180 They're uh, uh, well, cold in comparison, let 211 00:08:52.180 --> 00:08:54.420 me put it that way. They're only about 10,000 212 00:08:54.420 --> 00:08:57.100 degrees. If you can describe 10,000 213 00:08:57.100 --> 00:08:59.560 degrees as cold. Well it is compared with the 214 00:08:59.560 --> 00:09:01.760 million degrees that's, you know, that's 215 00:09:01.760 --> 00:09:04.480 surrounding them. And um, in fact there's a 216 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.750 lovely quote from uh, uh, 217 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.840 one of the um, uh, authors, the co author of 218 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.560 the paper is actually at the Space Telescope 219 00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:13.680 Science Institute, STScI, which is in 220 00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:16.520 Baltimore. Um, somebody uh, called Andrew 221 00:09:16.520 --> 00:09:19.390 Fox. Uh, he um, 222 00:09:19.390 --> 00:09:21.880 has this lovely quote. Uh, he says they're 223 00:09:21.880 --> 00:09:24.680 around 10,000 degrees Kelvin, so cooler than 224 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:26.480 their surroundings by at least a factor of 225 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.340 100. Finding these clouds within the Fermi 226 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:31.260 bubble is like finding ice cubes in a 227 00:09:31.260 --> 00:09:33.980 volcano. And you know, that's really 228 00:09:33.980 --> 00:09:36.330 nice, a nice uh, summary. Um, 229 00:09:36.820 --> 00:09:39.540 and it's hard to 230 00:09:39.540 --> 00:09:42.460 understand m, why they're 231 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:45.220 there. And one of the other astronomers 232 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:46.940 involved with this says computer models of 233 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:49.740 cool gas interacting with hot outflowing 234 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:51.980 gas in extreme environments like the Fermi 235 00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:54.150 bubbles show that cool clouds should be 236 00:09:54.150 --> 00:09:56.030 rapidly destroyed, usually within a few 237 00:09:56.030 --> 00:09:58.750 million years. Uh, a timescale that 238 00:09:58.990 --> 00:10:01.750 aligns with independent estimates of the 239 00:10:01.750 --> 00:10:04.510 Fermi bubbles age. Um, and 240 00:10:04.670 --> 00:10:07.070 it wouldn't be possible for the clouds to be 241 00:10:07.230 --> 00:10:10.190 present, to be present at all if 242 00:10:10.190 --> 00:10:12.510 the bubbles were 10 million years or older. 243 00:10:12.590 --> 00:10:14.430 So that's what they're saying is, you know, 244 00:10:14.430 --> 00:10:17.310 you've got a scale of a few million years for 245 00:10:17.310 --> 00:10:19.770 these things to evaporate to become at the 246 00:10:19.770 --> 00:10:22.710 same temperature as the bubbles. But uh, uh, 247 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:25.450 they haven't done that yet. Um, 248 00:10:26.050 --> 00:10:28.370 and one other quote if I may. Uh, because 249 00:10:28.770 --> 00:10:30.810 this is full of great quotes and there's my 250 00:10:30.810 --> 00:10:33.170 phone ringing and I don't know why, 251 00:10:33.390 --> 00:10:36.330 uh, I'm going to ignore it. 252 00:10:36.330 --> 00:10:37.970 They might be trying to get me out of the 253 00:10:37.970 --> 00:10:40.170 room. Do you mind if I take this? Heidi, 254 00:10:40.170 --> 00:10:42.210 let's Pause it. Let's pause it. We'll just. 255 00:10:43.410 --> 00:10:44.930 Actually, they've gone. All right. 256 00:10:45.560 --> 00:10:46.840 Heidi Campo: They'll be back. Don't worry. 257 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:48.800 Professor Fred Watson: They'll be back. 258 00:10:48.800 --> 00:10:49.240 Heidi Campo: Probably. 259 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:51.120 Professor Fred Watson: They will be back. Yes, I'm sure that's 260 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.000 right. Uh, unless the place is 261 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.480 on fire or something like that. Doesn't look 262 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.440 to be. Um, so 263 00:10:58.680 --> 00:11:00.820 another quote, uh, ah, 264 00:11:02.010 --> 00:11:04.400 uh, uh, from one of the scientists involved 265 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:06.760 with this. What makes this discovery even 266 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:09.200 more remarkable is its synergy with 267 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:11.160 ultraviolet observations from the Hubble 268 00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:13.950 Space Telescope. The clouds lie along a 269 00:11:13.950 --> 00:11:16.110 sight line previously observed with the 270 00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:18.110 Hubble Space Telescope, which detected 271 00:11:18.670 --> 00:11:21.150 highly ionized multiphase gas. 272 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:24.280 Uh, that's just saying it's very excited. Uh, 273 00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:26.110 ranging in temperatures from a million to 274 00:11:26.110 --> 00:11:27.989 100,000 degrees, which is what you would 275 00:11:27.989 --> 00:11:30.670 expect to see if cold gas is getting 276 00:11:30.670 --> 00:11:32.750 evaporated. In other words, there is evidence 277 00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:36.110 that these cold gas clouds are, uh, actually 278 00:11:36.110 --> 00:11:38.810 dissipating, that they're warming up. Uh, and 279 00:11:39.290 --> 00:11:42.130 basically, uh, they're going to disappear, 280 00:11:42.130 --> 00:11:44.940 you know, within a million years or so. Uh, 281 00:11:45.130 --> 00:11:47.010 so a really interesting story with a lot of 282 00:11:47.010 --> 00:11:49.010 loose ends tied up very nicely by the 283 00:11:49.010 --> 00:11:50.810 observations made by these scientists. 284 00:11:52.010 --> 00:11:53.850 Heidi Campo: Wow, that's a. 285 00:11:55.290 --> 00:11:56.970 I just. I'm still wrapping my head around 286 00:11:56.970 --> 00:11:59.410 that metaphor of the ice cube in a lava 287 00:11:59.410 --> 00:12:02.010 volcano or in a volcano. What an 288 00:12:02.010 --> 00:12:04.450 incredible discovery. That's one I'm 289 00:12:04.450 --> 00:12:07.280 definitely going to keep my eye on for 290 00:12:07.280 --> 00:12:09.840 further, um, research and 291 00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:12.920 seeing what we figure out. This is a really 292 00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:15.040 interesting phenomenon. 293 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:18.960 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. 294 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:22.080 Uh, and, um, uh, Fermi bubbles. 295 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:23.640 We've talked about them a little bit in the 296 00:12:23.640 --> 00:12:26.300 past on Spacenuts, uh, when the, uh, 297 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.320 beloved Andrew Dunkley was there, uh, and 298 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.000 he'll be back, I'm sure. Uh, um, the, 299 00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:35.440 uh, bottom line is though, that, um, they're 300 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.000 still a bit mysterious. You know, 301 00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:40.280 clearly they are. They're sort of spherical 302 00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:42.350 in shape. You can see when you look at, um, 303 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.060 images taken with, um, 304 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.320 principally radio telescopes, but also Gamma 305 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.800 Ray Telescope. Uh, it's that they're, they're 306 00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:52.040 quite spherical. That a bubble is a good name 307 00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:54.860 for it because they seem to be hollow. Uh, 308 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:57.480 but how they actually are, 309 00:12:58.930 --> 00:13:01.410 how they arise, probably because the hot gas 310 00:13:01.410 --> 00:13:04.130 shooting up from the black hole, uh, might 311 00:13:04.210 --> 00:13:07.050 excavate a sort of spherical cavern in the 312 00:13:07.050 --> 00:13:09.810 surrounding gas. It's still a bit mysterious 313 00:13:09.810 --> 00:13:10.130 though. 314 00:13:13.090 --> 00:13:15.330 Generic: Three, two, one. 315 00:13:15.890 --> 00:13:17.090 Space nuts. 316 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:17.730 Heidi Campo: Yeah. 317 00:13:17.810 --> 00:13:20.450 Speaking of mysteries, our next story 318 00:13:20.530 --> 00:13:23.330 is also quite mysterious 319 00:13:23.570 --> 00:13:26.170 and it seems like the race is on to figure 320 00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:28.490 out what the answer is. And we are trying to 321 00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:29.930 figure out. Did something just happen to 322 00:13:29.930 --> 00:13:32.910 Saturn? Saturn? Did it just get Hit what is 323 00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:35.710 going on? The headlines here is astronomers 324 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:38.350 are racing to find out. So it sounds like 325 00:13:38.350 --> 00:13:40.910 this is also kind of a hot discovery that 326 00:13:40.910 --> 00:13:43.630 everybody wants to know the answer to 327 00:13:43.790 --> 00:13:45.950 is what's going on with Saturn? 328 00:13:46.890 --> 00:13:49.870 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yeah, so, um, Saturn, I 329 00:13:49.870 --> 00:13:52.070 guess everybody's favorite planet, um, with 330 00:13:52.070 --> 00:13:54.870 its rings, wonderful uh, place to 331 00:13:54.870 --> 00:13:57.110 study and a great place to start with if 332 00:13:57.110 --> 00:13:59.460 you've got a small telescope because you. The 333 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:02.270 rings are always quite breathtaking. Um, 334 00:14:03.020 --> 00:14:04.870 so uh, 335 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:08.620 we know that um, planets, particularly in the 336 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:10.380 outer parts of. Well we know planets 337 00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:12.660 everywhere are subject to bombardment by 338 00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:15.150 asteroids at a relatively low rate. Um, 339 00:14:15.900 --> 00:14:18.660 this is part of uh, the process of 340 00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:20.740 planet building, uh most of which took place 341 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:22.380 four billion years ago, four and a half 342 00:14:22.380 --> 00:14:23.820 billion years ago. But there are still 343 00:14:24.060 --> 00:14:27.010 asteroids bombarding planets that, you know, 344 00:14:27.020 --> 00:14:29.610 m missed the boat really. Uh, and we know 345 00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:31.450 about asteroids that have hit the Earth in 346 00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:33.490 particular the dinosaur killer back in 347 00:14:33.810 --> 00:14:35.730 66 million years ago. 348 00:14:36.280 --> 00:14:39.090 Um, so it's expected that you would see from 349 00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:41.770 time to time small uh, asteroids, meteorites, 350 00:14:41.770 --> 00:14:44.370 effectively hitting other planets. Uh, and 351 00:14:44.930 --> 00:14:47.610 the most well known one for the outer planets 352 00:14:47.610 --> 00:14:50.480 is a comet, uh, which uh, 353 00:14:50.530 --> 00:14:53.180 impacted um, the planet Jupiter 354 00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:55.260 back in, I think it was 355 00:14:55.260 --> 00:14:57.540 1994 or 356 00:14:57.540 --> 00:15:00.220 thereabouts. Um, uh, which 357 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.560 uh, basically, uh, 358 00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:06.420 yes, it was 1994. I've just checked it up. A 359 00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:08.940 uh, comet called Shoemaker Levy nine, 360 00:15:09.400 --> 00:15:11.500 uh, which broke up actually because of 361 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:13.540 Jupiter's intense gravitational field. It 362 00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:16.300 broke up before it hit the planet. Uh, but it 363 00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:19.150 did hit the planet and because people had 364 00:15:19.390 --> 00:15:22.070 observed the comet, uh, there were many 365 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:24.310 observations made including by our Anglo 366 00:15:24.310 --> 00:15:26.990 Australian telescope here in Australia. Um, 367 00:15:27.150 --> 00:15:29.310 they managed to observe the impact of 368 00:15:29.390 --> 00:15:31.910 Shoemaker Levy nine fragments with the 369 00:15:31.910 --> 00:15:34.710 atmosphere of Jupiter. Um, and so we'd expect 370 00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:36.910 to see the same sort of thing with the other 371 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:38.190 gas giants out there. 372 00:15:38.350 --> 00:15:41.030 And um, so with that as the 373 00:15:41.030 --> 00:15:43.390 background, what's hit the headlines 374 00:15:43.630 --> 00:15:46.510 uh at the moment is a 375 00:15:46.510 --> 00:15:49.190 flash that has been recorded. It's actually 376 00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:51.870 right on the limb of the planet Saturn, 377 00:15:52.290 --> 00:15:54.670 uh, by an amateur astronomer who was 378 00:15:55.510 --> 00:15:58.510 m taking video footage of the planet 379 00:15:58.510 --> 00:16:01.510 itself. Um, now it's 380 00:16:01.510 --> 00:16:04.510 an astronomer, uh, by the name of Mario 381 00:16:04.590 --> 00:16:07.550 Rana, who is a NASA employee 382 00:16:08.670 --> 00:16:11.430 and um, has. So as well 383 00:16:11.430 --> 00:16:13.430 as working for NASA, he's also an amateur 384 00:16:13.430 --> 00:16:15.730 astronomer. Uh, and he 385 00:16:16.290 --> 00:16:19.170 basically um, caught this 386 00:16:19.410 --> 00:16:22.130 image which you can find on the web. There's 387 00:16:22.130 --> 00:16:24.010 a few websites that have got a picture of it. 388 00:16:24.010 --> 00:16:26.650 It's a very blurry image of Saturn, which is 389 00:16:26.650 --> 00:16:28.210 kind of what you'd expect from a short 390 00:16:28.290 --> 00:16:31.010 exposure video image, uh, with a 391 00:16:31.010 --> 00:16:33.810 flash at one side. Now the question 392 00:16:34.130 --> 00:16:36.730 that everybody's asking, and this is what you 393 00:16:36.730 --> 00:16:38.930 were alluding to right at the beginning is 394 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:41.740 uh, what is the flash? Is it something 395 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:44.700 impacting the atmosphere of Saturn or 396 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:47.680 is it perhaps a glitch in the data which are 397 00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:50.300 uh, not unknown at all. Uh, when you're doing 398 00:16:50.300 --> 00:16:52.620 astronomical imaging uh, with any kind of 399 00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.860 equipment there are often, there's often the 400 00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:57.659 possibility of a glitch. Uh so 401 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.540 um, that is a ah question 402 00:17:01.020 --> 00:17:03.820 that can really only be resolved if 403 00:17:04.300 --> 00:17:06.780 somebody else was also observing 404 00:17:07.070 --> 00:17:09.630 plateau, not platurn Saturn. 405 00:17:10.270 --> 00:17:12.790 If somebody else was also observing the 406 00:17:12.790 --> 00:17:15.750 planet Saturn, sometimes abbreviated to 407 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.650 platen, um, uh, then um, 408 00:17:19.550 --> 00:17:21.470 basically uh, and they found 409 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:25.190 the same flash in their data. Um 410 00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:27.990 then that would prove that this was not a 411 00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:30.610 glitch in the data, that it's actually ah, 412 00:17:30.690 --> 00:17:33.520 um, something that's real, a real 413 00:17:33.520 --> 00:17:36.320 event. Uh and so uh, the search 414 00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:39.320 is on for somebody who was observing the 415 00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:41.840 planet Saturn on the 5th of July 416 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.880 between 9am and 9:15am 417 00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:47.600 UTC. That's Universal Coordinated universal 418 00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:50.080 Time. That's the sort of standard time that 419 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.240 used to be called Greenwich Mean Time but is 420 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.920 now much more sophisticated uh 9:00am and 421 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.880 9:15 if any. Um, SpaceNots listeners 422 00:17:57.880 --> 00:17:59.880 have got footage of Saturn taken at that 423 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.630 time, 5th of July, not very long ago between 424 00:18:02.630 --> 00:18:05.510 9am and 9:15am M UTC. We want 425 00:18:05.510 --> 00:18:08.310 to see your data uh, because there 426 00:18:08.310 --> 00:18:10.990 could be evidence that this was a real event 427 00:18:11.070 --> 00:18:13.670 rather than a hot pixel or some sort of 428 00:18:13.670 --> 00:18:16.470 glitch in the data. So um, that's a story 429 00:18:16.470 --> 00:18:18.870 that I think is going to develop again, one 430 00:18:18.870 --> 00:18:20.590 we should keep an eye on Heidi, because 431 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:23.030 hopefully maybe within the next couple of 432 00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:25.150 weeks we might find that somebody has 433 00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:27.710 recorded the planet Saturn at that time, 434 00:18:28.210 --> 00:18:31.110 uh, and that there is confirmation that it 435 00:18:31.110 --> 00:18:33.070 was actually an impacting object. Then we've 436 00:18:33.070 --> 00:18:34.570 got to think about what it might have been. 437 00:18:34.570 --> 00:18:37.450 Possibly a comet, possibly an asteroid, 438 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:40.010 but something um, big enough to make 439 00:18:40.490 --> 00:18:43.370 a significant um, flash when it 440 00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:45.770 actually burned up or 441 00:18:46.010 --> 00:18:47.930 interacted with the atmosphere of Saturn. 442 00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:51.370 Heidi Campo: Yeah, yeah. This is just another reminder of 443 00:18:51.370 --> 00:18:54.170 how important citizen science is because this 444 00:18:54.170 --> 00:18:57.010 is a great example of you don't need to 445 00:18:57.010 --> 00:18:59.890 be a Fred Watson to make these discoveries. 446 00:18:59.890 --> 00:19:02.080 You could be, you know, any of our 447 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.680 regular listeners, you could be a Heidi Campo 448 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.110 and still do cool things and uh, 449 00:19:07.570 --> 00:19:09.640 uh, that's really exciting. So I guess we 450 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.080 will find out. Uh, right now I guess it is 451 00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:14.320 just a big hands in the air. I don't know. 452 00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:18.000 We need more data to figure that out. 453 00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:22.960 Voice Over Guy: Okay, we checked all four systems and. Team 454 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:24.560 with a go space nuts. 455 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.920 Heidi Campo: But unlike our last Story where there is 456 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.740 just so much conversation, lots of 457 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:33.220 talk, lots of mystery, lots of data, lots of 458 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:35.340 not data. We are talking about, 459 00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:38.740 I think it's, we're going to be split down 460 00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:40.340 the middle. It's either something you love to 461 00:19:40.340 --> 00:19:43.100 talk about or it's oh man, this again. But we 462 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:45.540 are talking about the search for 463 00:19:45.540 --> 00:19:47.260 extraterrestrials. 464 00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:48.540 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. 465 00:19:48.620 --> 00:19:51.620 Heidi Campo: And uh, for, I think for those of you who 466 00:19:51.620 --> 00:19:54.220 are in the camp of you've watched the movie 467 00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:56.420 Contact and you loved it, then this will be 468 00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:57.300 the story for you. 469 00:19:58.580 --> 00:20:00.860 Professor Fred Watson: It's a really interesting story. The reason I 470 00:20:00.860 --> 00:20:03.820 put it in today Heidi, was that one of 471 00:20:03.820 --> 00:20:06.420 my colleagues at the conference actually 472 00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.300 mentioned this idea in his 473 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:12.260 talk, uh, for about a fifth of a 474 00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:14.420 second. He didn't dwell on it. It was 475 00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.780 flashed up on the screen. High, uh, energy 476 00:20:17.780 --> 00:20:19.980 astrobiology was the term he used. And then 477 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:22.070 he moved on to something else. And I thought 478 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:25.270 those two words, oh, uh, three words I guess, 479 00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:28.710 high energy with uh, a hyphen in between. 480 00:20:28.870 --> 00:20:31.550 High energy and astrobiology. 481 00:20:31.550 --> 00:20:34.350 Astrobiology is the uh, study 482 00:20:34.350 --> 00:20:36.990 of the origin of life, how life evolved, how 483 00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:39.470 it became, uh, where it is throughout the 484 00:20:39.470 --> 00:20:42.390 universe. High uh, energy astronomy 485 00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:44.150 is at the opposite end. It's the stuff we've 486 00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:45.790 been talking about with the Fermi bubbles. 487 00:20:45.790 --> 00:20:48.150 It's uh, things that are very hot or very 488 00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:50.750 active or you know, full of radiation. 489 00:20:51.170 --> 00:20:52.830 Uh, the kinds of things that you don't 490 00:20:52.830 --> 00:20:55.150 associate with the origin of life. 491 00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:58.590 Uh, that you might um, you know, think 492 00:20:58.590 --> 00:21:01.390 that these high energy radiations would just 493 00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:04.390 destroy any sort of molecules that 494 00:21:04.390 --> 00:21:06.710 are trying to evolve into living 495 00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:09.670 organisms. Uh, and uh, that's 496 00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:12.330 why it seemed like um. 497 00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:15.430 Yes, it seemed like the word is an oxymoron, 498 00:21:15.430 --> 00:21:17.710 isn't it? An oxymoron's two things that go 499 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:20.030 together that mean opposite things. That's 500 00:21:20.030 --> 00:21:22.590 what it seemed like. And then here I found 501 00:21:22.970 --> 00:21:25.710 ah, an article which is on the phys.org 502 00:21:26.270 --> 00:21:28.970 website, phys.org Ah, 503 00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:31.230 reviving search for Extraterrestrial 504 00:21:31.550 --> 00:21:34.030 Intelligence with High Energy Astronomy. 505 00:21:34.430 --> 00:21:37.290 And so it's really um, 506 00:21:37.290 --> 00:21:39.430 it's a white paper actually that's gone to 507 00:21:39.430 --> 00:21:42.230 the NASA Decadal Astrobiology Research 508 00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:45.070 and Exploration Strategy. Uh, and 509 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:47.270 they uh, have a request for information and 510 00:21:47.270 --> 00:21:49.810 this white paper has uh, come in as a 511 00:21:49.810 --> 00:21:52.810 submission. Um, and it's got at 512 00:21:52.810 --> 00:21:55.450 uh, least two researchers involved with this. 513 00:21:55.590 --> 00:21:57.410 Uh, they're involved with a project called 514 00:21:57.410 --> 00:21:59.490 Breakthrough Listen, which we've certainly 515 00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:02.130 talked about before on uh, Space Nuts. 516 00:22:02.130 --> 00:22:05.030 Breakthrough Listen is a privately funded uh, 517 00:22:05.030 --> 00:22:07.930 venture to devote some of the time 518 00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:10.130 on two big radio telescopes, one of which is 519 00:22:10.130 --> 00:22:12.850 here in Australia, the Parkes radiodish to 520 00:22:12.850 --> 00:22:15.810 listening for uh, SETI signals. In 521 00:22:15.810 --> 00:22:17.570 other words, the search for extraterrestrial 522 00:22:17.570 --> 00:22:20.050 intelligence. Listening for signals that 523 00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:22.770 might actually be 524 00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:25.330 um, somebody's communication signals, 525 00:22:25.730 --> 00:22:28.710 uh, in a different star system. Uh, 526 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:31.210 so these people are already tuned into that 527 00:22:31.210 --> 00:22:33.130 idea. Now the breakthrough listen has been 528 00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:35.902 going for some years, maybe 15, 529 00:22:35.984 --> 00:22:38.770 10, 15 years. It's funded by a Russian 530 00:22:38.930 --> 00:22:40.610 billionaire called Yuri Milner. 531 00:22:41.070 --> 00:22:43.450 Uh, and they haven't found anything. 532 00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:46.450 Basically, uh, no signals have been detected 533 00:22:46.450 --> 00:22:48.850 that could be artificial in origin. 534 00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:52.020 And I think, um, maybe in a little bit of 535 00:22:52.020 --> 00:22:54.780 frustration around that, because 536 00:22:54.940 --> 00:22:57.820 radio is what you think of at first as 537 00:22:58.860 --> 00:23:00.980 extraterrestrial civilizations trying to 538 00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:02.580 communicate with one another. It's what we 539 00:23:02.580 --> 00:23:05.460 use in our civilization and uh, it leaks out 540 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:07.460 into space. We know that the Earth is quite 541 00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:10.460 bright in the radio spectrum because of all 542 00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:13.060 our radio signals as we communicate with each 543 00:23:13.060 --> 00:23:15.900 other. Uh, so perhaps frustrated at 544 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.740 the lack of any response on that, these 545 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:21.420 scientists have posed the 546 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:24.100 idea how could high energy astronomy be used 547 00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:26.260 to find radio signals from 548 00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:28.900 technological civilizations? 549 00:23:29.380 --> 00:23:32.180 And so it dwells on things 550 00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:34.820 like objects that emit M, cosmic rays, 551 00:23:34.900 --> 00:23:36.820 gamma rays, X rays, 552 00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:40.510 uh, all these things which are uh, come 553 00:23:40.510 --> 00:23:43.130 from sources of high energy emissions. Uh, 554 00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:45.830 they list a whole lot of them. Neutrinos, X 555 00:23:45.830 --> 00:23:48.830 rays, cosmic rays, gamma rays, pulsar 556 00:23:48.830 --> 00:23:51.150 wind, nebulae, neutron stars, black holes, 557 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:53.940 solar flares and gamma ray bursts. Um, 558 00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:56.589 but how do you uh, associate that with 559 00:23:57.100 --> 00:23:59.990 uh, technological civilizations? Well, what 560 00:23:59.990 --> 00:24:02.870 you've got to do is think completely out of 561 00:24:02.870 --> 00:24:05.750 the box. Uh, and one of the boxes 562 00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:08.450 that they think out of is, you know, 563 00:24:08.450 --> 00:24:11.370 we uh, regard our environment here 564 00:24:11.370 --> 00:24:13.450 on Earth at a comfortable temperature of 565 00:24:13.450 --> 00:24:15.770 about 15 degrees Celsius on average for the 566 00:24:15.770 --> 00:24:18.690 whole planet, uh, as being where 567 00:24:19.170 --> 00:24:21.530 life has evolved, where we have evolved. But 568 00:24:21.530 --> 00:24:23.890 they are thinking way outside and they're 569 00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.650 saying, okay, uh, think of the surface of a 570 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:29.050 neutron star. Now uh, I meant to look up what 571 00:24:29.050 --> 00:24:30.810 the average temperature of the surface of a 572 00:24:30.810 --> 00:24:33.130 neutron star is and I forgot to, but it is 573 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:35.530 very, very hot. It's, you know, we're talking 574 00:24:35.530 --> 00:24:38.450 thousands of degrees. Um, and 575 00:24:38.770 --> 00:24:41.030 imagine uh, that ah, 576 00:24:43.570 --> 00:24:46.170 a life form could exist on such a 577 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:48.930 surface that lives on nuclear energy 578 00:24:49.010 --> 00:24:51.290 and all that radiation that comes from the 579 00:24:51.290 --> 00:24:54.250 neutron stars. So how do 580 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:57.010 you search the signals we get from neutron 581 00:24:57.010 --> 00:24:59.770 stars to look for artificial signals? And 582 00:24:59.770 --> 00:25:02.480 they're suggesting AI for that machine 583 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.960 learning, uh, searching X ray images, 584 00:25:05.040 --> 00:25:07.520 neutrino bursts, gamma ray observations. 585 00:25:08.510 --> 00:25:11.430 Um, there is a quote, if I may, uh, 586 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:13.440 read it from the study that says high energy 587 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.040 seti, by and large Must be a 588 00:25:16.040 --> 00:25:18.680 commensal effort for the foreseeable future. 589 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:21.320 That's one that everybody joins in. Dedicated 590 00:25:21.320 --> 00:25:23.240 programs will only be feasible after much 591 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.240 further investigation. At, uh, this stage, 592 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.520 our efforts will be like those of early radio 593 00:25:27.520 --> 00:25:29.930 and optical SETI pioneers who developed 594 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.650 methods and infrastructure that took 595 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:35.570 decades to grow into the robust subfield 596 00:25:35.570 --> 00:25:38.330 it is today. So, yeah, 597 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:41.050 it's really interesting. I like the other 598 00:25:41.050 --> 00:25:42.930 comment as well. An even more basic reason 599 00:25:42.930 --> 00:25:44.770 for these studies is the difficulty in 600 00:25:44.770 --> 00:25:46.970 building optics for some kinds of radiation 601 00:25:47.050 --> 00:25:49.810 because we cannot make neutrino lenses. Every 602 00:25:49.810 --> 00:25:52.330 neutrino detector is sensitive to large 603 00:25:52.810 --> 00:25:55.450 areas of sky, making it a good 604 00:25:55.530 --> 00:25:57.570 SETI facility if you're looking at the whole 605 00:25:57.570 --> 00:26:00.320 sky. But what you find might not mean very 606 00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:02.800 much to us. So I'm not quite sure where this 607 00:26:02.800 --> 00:26:05.800 study is going. Um, I have to admit 608 00:26:05.800 --> 00:26:08.560 a little bit of skepticism as to whether we 609 00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:11.070 would ever find a technosignature from the, 610 00:26:11.070 --> 00:26:13.280 uh, X rays coming from a neutron star. 611 00:26:13.790 --> 00:26:16.320 Um, it would be very mysterious. So the first 612 00:26:16.320 --> 00:26:18.000 thing I would think of would be, uh, well, 613 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.600 maybe there's a planet going around it that's 614 00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:21.680 got a rather more benign environment to it. 615 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.480 But, you know, we're always looking for 616 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:25.480 planets in the Goldilocks zone, that zone 617 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.520 where it's not too hot and not too cold for 618 00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:29.760 liquid water to exist, because that's the 619 00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:31.500 only form of. Of life we know, one that's 620 00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:33.700 based on liquid water. But, yes, there may be 621 00:26:33.700 --> 00:26:35.180 other forms of life. Who knows? 622 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:38.660 Heidi Campo: We. I, I certainly don't. No, some 623 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:41.070 of our listeners do. Maybe. Maybe, uh, 624 00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:43.060 Henrique will be the one to find them. 625 00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:43.580 Professor Fred Watson: Ah, yes. 626 00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:45.620 Heidi Campo: This, uh, this really does kind of sound like 627 00:26:45.620 --> 00:26:48.060 the plot line to contact 628 00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:51.340 some billionaire funding some young ambitious 629 00:26:51.340 --> 00:26:53.060 scientist. And I've always laughed because 630 00:26:53.060 --> 00:26:55.060 it's like, that's every scientist dream. If 631 00:26:55.060 --> 00:26:56.860 someone shows up with a blank check, and it's 632 00:26:56.860 --> 00:26:58.020 like, all right, how much money do you need? 633 00:26:58.020 --> 00:26:59.820 I will fund everything. And you're just like, 634 00:27:00.300 --> 00:27:01.180 thank you so much. 635 00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.220 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you. Yeah, I don't know, what do you 636 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:04.380 say, but thank you. 637 00:27:05.580 --> 00:27:08.550 Heidi Campo: That'd be pretty cool. Um, my friend, um, 638 00:27:08.550 --> 00:27:10.860 Dr. Allison McGraw, she's a planetary 639 00:27:10.860 --> 00:27:12.700 scientist at the Lunar and Planetary 640 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.340 Institute. She looks through 641 00:27:15.340 --> 00:27:17.780 telescopes, and she's sure her background's 642 00:27:17.780 --> 00:27:19.620 in, um, geology. And she's always thought 643 00:27:19.620 --> 00:27:21.940 that for extraterrestrial life, that we 644 00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:24.340 should look for planets with 645 00:27:24.340 --> 00:27:25.900 plastic signatures. 646 00:27:26.270 --> 00:27:27.070 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Yep. 647 00:27:27.070 --> 00:27:29.030 Heidi Campo: And that's always been. Her philosophy, is 648 00:27:29.030 --> 00:27:31.950 just looking for those kinds of materials 649 00:27:31.950 --> 00:27:34.270 or things that are not going to be 650 00:27:34.270 --> 00:27:36.430 organically made. I mean, she's like, we need 651 00:27:36.430 --> 00:27:38.990 planets that have garbage on them. Yeah, 652 00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:41.150 that's going to tell us there's life there. 653 00:27:42.029 --> 00:27:44.750 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. And it's uh, another way that 654 00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:47.630 uh, people are already looking uh, for is, 655 00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:49.710 you know, gases in the atmospheres of 656 00:27:50.110 --> 00:27:52.070 exoplanets that can only be formed by 657 00:27:52.070 --> 00:27:54.230 industrial processes, which might be easier 658 00:27:54.230 --> 00:27:56.740 to find than plastic signatures. Some of the 659 00:27:56.740 --> 00:27:59.540 gases like fluorocarbons, things of that 660 00:27:59.540 --> 00:28:01.220 sort that only come out of 661 00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:04.740 smokestacks, uh, in industrial, you know, 662 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:06.210 industrial machinery. 663 00:28:06.210 --> 00:28:08.980 Heidi Campo: Um, uh, so we found that and it was 664 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:11.300 KB18B. 665 00:28:11.860 --> 00:28:13.660 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. K2.18B. That's right. 666 00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:14.980 Heidi Campo: K2.18B. 667 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:18.980 Professor Fred Watson: Those are um, the signatures that 668 00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:21.420 are reputed to have been found, they still 669 00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:23.540 haven't been confirmed, are ah, chemicals 670 00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:25.660 that are only emitted by microbes on Earth. 671 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:27.340 So they're not technosignatures, but they are 672 00:28:27.340 --> 00:28:29.760 bio, uh, signatures, what we might call 673 00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.760 biomarkers, if they are real. 674 00:28:32.560 --> 00:28:34.840 Heidi Campo: And that is an episode from a few weeks ago 675 00:28:34.840 --> 00:28:37.720 that we go in depth on if you were interested 676 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.720 in ah, that particular planet. 677 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:43.480 Professor Fred Watson: That's the one, um, which your husband likes, 678 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:43.840 I believe. 679 00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:47.520 Heidi Campo: Yeah. Uh, I think he saw that on Instagram 680 00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:49.600 and he was fascinated because it was one of 681 00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:52.040 those clickbait type articles that has some 682 00:28:52.040 --> 00:28:55.010 headline. It's like, we found aliens. NASA 683 00:28:55.010 --> 00:28:56.930 confirms that we have found aliens. It's 684 00:28:56.930 --> 00:28:59.170 like, okay, we're alive. 685 00:29:00.690 --> 00:29:03.330 And then you read the study and you find out 686 00:29:03.330 --> 00:29:06.090 that they're just finding um, gas bubbles 687 00:29:06.090 --> 00:29:07.810 that might be something. That might be 688 00:29:07.810 --> 00:29:09.649 something. And it's, they're just looking at 689 00:29:09.649 --> 00:29:11.810 it through a few pixels on one telescope. So 690 00:29:11.810 --> 00:29:14.330 it's like, okay, we're not quite there yet. I 691 00:29:14.330 --> 00:29:17.290 think when we, if, if, if or when we do 692 00:29:17.290 --> 00:29:19.490 find something, it'll be more than one 693 00:29:19.490 --> 00:29:22.050 article from one random Instagram page. 694 00:29:23.030 --> 00:29:25.710 Professor Fred Watson: I think you're right there, everybody talking 695 00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:26.310 about it. 696 00:29:26.790 --> 00:29:29.620 Heidi Campo: Well, Fred, this has been a really fun, uh, 697 00:29:29.620 --> 00:29:32.430 conversation and I know that you're eager to 698 00:29:32.430 --> 00:29:34.750 get back to the rest of your conference where 699 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:37.430 you can learn more and share more with us. So 700 00:29:37.430 --> 00:29:39.710 we're going to let you uh, get going. But 701 00:29:39.710 --> 00:29:42.150 thank you so much for joining me today. 702 00:29:42.550 --> 00:29:45.270 This has been really fun, talking about milky 703 00:29:45.270 --> 00:29:48.040 coffee bubbles and uh, 704 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:51.070 Saturn and ETs and all the fun stuff. 705 00:29:51.310 --> 00:29:54.280 Professor Fred Watson: A high energy episode of, uh, um, 706 00:29:54.510 --> 00:29:56.390 Space Nuts. That's what we call it, don't we? 707 00:29:56.390 --> 00:29:57.390 Space Nuts. That's it. 708 00:29:59.470 --> 00:30:01.310 Yeah. No, it's great. Thank you, thank you 709 00:30:01.310 --> 00:30:03.630 very much, Heidi. Thanks as always for your 710 00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:06.030 time and enthusiasm and we'll talk again 711 00:30:06.030 --> 00:30:06.350 soon. 712 00:30:06.830 --> 00:30:09.470 Andrew Dunkley: Hi Fred. Hello, Heidi. Hello, Huw in the 713 00:30:09.470 --> 00:30:09.910 studio. 714 00:30:09.910 --> 00:30:12.750 Andrew again from somewhere in 715 00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:14.880 the Mediterranean and where We've spent, uh, 716 00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:17.460 a fair bit of time since I last spoke to you 717 00:30:17.620 --> 00:30:19.740 after our visit to Tenerife. What have we 718 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.740 been doing since? Blimey. Uh, we've been 719 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.380 everywhere. Uh, mainly in Spain, but also 720 00:30:25.540 --> 00:30:28.460 Morocco. We docked 721 00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:31.140 at Casablanca and then took a, 722 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:34.380 A trip for a few hours to Marrakech. Now, we 723 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:36.180 didn't catch the Marrakech Express, 724 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:40.390 um, which is made famous by the Crosby, 725 00:30:40.390 --> 00:30:42.590 Stills Nash and Young song, but, uh, we did 726 00:30:42.590 --> 00:30:45.590 see it, actually. Uh, no, we went to 727 00:30:45.590 --> 00:30:48.430 Marrakech and, uh, we. We sat down to a 728 00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:50.830 traditional Moroccan lunch and, and looked at 729 00:30:50.830 --> 00:30:53.310 the countryside. Uh, it's a strange, 730 00:30:53.870 --> 00:30:56.790 strange change of terrain when 731 00:30:56.790 --> 00:30:59.070 you're driving from Casablanca to 732 00:30:59.230 --> 00:31:01.150 Marrakech, when you're heading south because 733 00:31:01.390 --> 00:31:04.110 it turns into desert very rapidly. But 734 00:31:04.190 --> 00:31:07.160 beautiful country. Quite, uh, quite 735 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.040 different to what I expected. Uh, then we 736 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.720 sailed through the Strait of Gibraltar and 737 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.760 saw the Rock. We were supposed to stop there, 738 00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:17.400 but delays have, uh, forced us to 739 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.040 skip the, uh, UK territory. 740 00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.360 And then it was on to, 741 00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:26.160 uh, Valencia. And we did a 742 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.440 cooking class, believe it or not, uh, and 743 00:31:28.600 --> 00:31:31.310 learned how to make paella or. Paella 744 00:31:31.860 --> 00:31:34.420 or whatever is the local pronunciation. And 745 00:31:34.420 --> 00:31:36.980 we got to eat it later. Fantastic. 746 00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:40.660 And then we moved even further to 747 00:31:41.780 --> 00:31:44.740 Barcelona. And, uh, we. We 748 00:31:44.740 --> 00:31:47.579 discovered, um, things about Barcelona we 749 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:50.150 didn't know. Like the hidden city that was, 750 00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:53.020 uh, dug up fairly recently, they 751 00:31:53.020 --> 00:31:55.820 didn't know was there, but it was, uh, a 752 00:31:55.820 --> 00:31:58.510 city underneath the city of Barcelona. 753 00:31:58.790 --> 00:32:01.390 Uh, so, uh, they've renovated that and uh, 754 00:32:01.390 --> 00:32:03.790 excavated it. I mean. And, uh, you know, you 755 00:32:03.790 --> 00:32:05.790 can see the streets and the. And the shops. 756 00:32:05.790 --> 00:32:08.670 They think it was a market called Elborn. 757 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:10.950 Uh, worth looking up if you want to check it 758 00:32:10.950 --> 00:32:13.270 out. And we saw the cathedral there. I mean, 759 00:32:13.270 --> 00:32:15.430 you go to a European city, there's a 760 00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:18.110 cathedral, and of course, the famous Columbus 761 00:32:18.110 --> 00:32:20.510 statue where he's pointing out to sea. 762 00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:24.180 Uh, then we moved on again and dropped 763 00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:27.180 in yesterday to Majorca and did a 764 00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:30.100 bit of a cross country trip to see the caves 765 00:32:30.100 --> 00:32:32.490 of Drac. And they are, uh, 766 00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:35.300 spectacular. We even got treated to a 767 00:32:35.620 --> 00:32:38.180 wonderful little classical concert, uh, with 768 00:32:38.180 --> 00:32:41.180 people in boats on a lake in, in the 769 00:32:41.180 --> 00:32:44.180 depths of these caves. And there 770 00:32:44.180 --> 00:32:47.020 was an, uh, an organ, two violinists, 771 00:32:47.020 --> 00:32:49.620 a cello and a rower in one boat 772 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.520 who did the concert for us was fantastic. 773 00:32:52.970 --> 00:32:55.480 Uh, and then we, um, looked around 774 00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:57.880 at, uh, many other places. One of the 775 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:00.160 interesting things about Mallorca is in the 776 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.280 farming district that we, we drove across. 777 00:33:03.590 --> 00:33:05.860 Uh, it used to have a problem with, um, 778 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.560 groundwater. It was the. The ground was 779 00:33:08.560 --> 00:33:10.840 completely soaked and they wanted to use it 780 00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:13.520 and they couldn't figure out how to get the 781 00:33:13.520 --> 00:33:16.310 water out, so they contacted it. A Dutch 782 00:33:16.310 --> 00:33:18.510 engineer who came over and said, oh, I've got 783 00:33:18.510 --> 00:33:20.950 the solution for you, and put up about 784 00:33:21.030 --> 00:33:23.110 2,000 of these 785 00:33:23.110 --> 00:33:26.110 windmills and dried the whole thing out by 786 00:33:26.110 --> 00:33:27.870 draining off the water through windmills. 787 00:33:27.870 --> 00:33:29.470 Well, the windmills are still there, but they 788 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.190 don't use them anymore. Uh, they use electric 789 00:33:32.190 --> 00:33:34.630 pumps instead. And 790 00:33:34.950 --> 00:33:37.270 then, uh, we moved on today 791 00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:40.550 to Cartagena, the one in 792 00:33:40.550 --> 00:33:42.590 Spain, not the one in Colombia, although we. 793 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:45.580 We've now been to both. And we, uh, did 794 00:33:45.580 --> 00:33:47.060 a little bit of a walking tour around 795 00:33:47.060 --> 00:33:49.940 Cartagena, Saw the Roman ruins, the, 796 00:33:50.450 --> 00:33:53.440 uh, Roman streets that they dug up, uh, 797 00:33:53.540 --> 00:33:56.300 recently, and some of the other architecture. 798 00:33:56.300 --> 00:33:58.859 But mainly we were there to try the food, the 799 00:33:58.859 --> 00:34:01.540 tapas and the amazing, 800 00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:04.580 uh, sangria and that incredible 801 00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:07.460 coffee that they produce with, um, Liquor 802 00:34:07.460 --> 00:34:10.319 43 and, oh, gosh, it's 803 00:34:10.319 --> 00:34:13.130 so nice. Probably terrible for my heart, but, 804 00:34:13.130 --> 00:34:15.679 um, we'll get over it, I'm sure. So that's 805 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.879 where we're up to. Our next stop takes us 806 00:34:17.879 --> 00:34:20.599 back to Morocco, where we'll be getting off 807 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.319 in Tangier, and then we'll be doing a coach 808 00:34:23.319 --> 00:34:25.930 trip to the Blue City. So I'll, uh, 809 00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:27.999 report on that and more. By the time I talk 810 00:34:27.999 --> 00:34:29.919 to you next, we'll have made several more 811 00:34:29.919 --> 00:34:31.959 stops, but, uh, it's really exciting. We're 812 00:34:31.959 --> 00:34:34.890 having a great time. Hope all is well in 813 00:34:34.890 --> 00:34:37.730 Houston and Sydney and everywhere else, 814 00:34:37.770 --> 00:34:40.650 uh, where Space Nuts people live. Talk 815 00:34:40.650 --> 00:34:42.130 to you soon. Bye for now. 816 00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:45.020 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts 817 00:34:45.020 --> 00:34:48.020 podcast, available at 818 00:34:48.020 --> 00:34:50.019 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 819 00:34:50.180 --> 00:34:52.940 iHeartRadio or your favorite podcast 820 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:54.660 player. You can also stream on 821 00:34:54.660 --> 00:34:57.620 demand at bitesz.com This has been another 822 00:34:57.700 --> 00:34:59.660 quality podcast production from 823 00:34:59.660 --> 00:35:00.820 bitesz.com