Speaker A: The following podcast is part of the.
Valerie Milburn: MindBodySpirit FM podcast network.
Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
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Valerie Milburn: There.
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Helen Sneed: Welcome to our award winning podcast,
Mental Health, Hope and Recovery.
I'm Helen Sneed.
Valerie Milburn: And I'm Valerie Milburn.
Helen Sneed: We both have fought and overcome
severe chronic mental illnesses.
Our podcast offers a unique approach to
mental health conditions. We use practical
skills and inspirational true stories of
recovery. Our knowledge is up close and
and personal.
Valerie Milburn: Helen and I are your peers. We're not
doctors, therapists or social workers. We're
not professionals, but we are experts.
We are experts in our own lived experience
with multiple mental health diagnoses and
symptoms. Please join us on our
journey.
Helen Sneed: We live in recovery, so can you.
Valerie Milburn: This podcast does not provide medical advice.
The information presented is not intended to
be a substitute for or relied upon as
medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
The podcast is for informational purposes
only. Always seek the advice of your
physician or other qualified health providers
with any health related questions you may
have.
Helen Sneed: Welcome to episode 52,
the Family Dynamics of a Psychiatric Crisis
Part 5 the Family Therapist
A Professional Perspective
Today marks the fifth and final episode of
our series, the Family Dynamics of a
Psychiatric Crisis. Valerie and I
encourage you to visit the first four
episodes where we made an in depth
exploration of the many challenges and
numerous roles in a family
where a member has mental health issues.
Now throughout the series we've had spouses,
siblings, parents, children, caregivers,
people with mental health conditions, all
providing their point of view in response to
our probing questions. Now, our
overall goal has been to define
and demystify the impact of mental illness on
the family and to enlighten and
strengthen the impact of the family on mental
illness.
Valerie Milburn: Now today will be an episode filled with
invaluable professional advice as we talk
with our guest, Lisa Powell Watts,
a seasoned psychotherapist of 40
years. It's my great pleasure to tell
you something of her distinguished career.
Lisa received her Master's degree in
education with a focus on counseling and
guidance from Texas State University in
1984. Since then, she has received
her professional counselor license, her
marriage and family therapist license, and
her chemical dependency counselor license.
It's Lisa's extensive experience
in family counseling that we will
particularly call on today.
For these past 40 years, Lisa has been a
practicing psychotherapist in both inpatient
and outpatient settings. Over the years, she
has seen individuals, couples and
families in counseling and has also led
numerous trainings. Lisa met and
trained with Dr. Brenda Davies,
British psychiatrist and author, over
25 years ago. With Dr. Davies, she
began utilizing mind body approaches to
healing with her clients. From
2008 to 2018, she had a healing
school in which she taught other helping
professionals these mind body healing
techniques. Now, I can personally
attest that Lisa is gifted in the
technique of chakra healing. Lisa
is a healer. In 2019,
she wrote a wonderful book, Chakra
Healing A New Path forward in treating
Addictions and Other Issues. It was a very
helpful book for me. Today,
Lisa is semi retired and mainly offers
phone sessions to her clients. Her contact
information will be in our show notes so that
you can contact Lisa with any questions you
may have. Now I have to share this.
Lisa is not only a Dear Friend of
45 years, she is an emotional
rock for me and with our friend Kelly.
Lisa is the third side of a triangle that
makes up one of the most meaningful
relationships in my life.
Lisa, thank you for being with us
today.
Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm. I'm really
excited about sharing what I know about
family therapy and just feel so honored
to get to be a part of this.
Valerie Milburn: Well, we're happy you're here and let's just
jump right in. Well, what drew
you to a family practice?
Speaker A: Well, I had started working on my
master's degree in counseling and there
was, this was back in the 80s and
we had, my class had the opportunity
to see Dr. Virginia Satir
and she was one of the pioneers in family
therapy. And so when I saw her,
it was, it was just one of those magical
moments. Her whole approach
was about building the nurturing
family, how to build a nurturing family.
And I was just hooked after I saw
Virginia Satir. And it wasn't long
after that that people like John
Bradshaw, Pia Melody,
those therapists and
authors were talking about the
roles and the rules of addicted
families. And I came from alcoholic family.
So I really, really
resonated with what they said about the roles
in those families and how they get
affected by the members alcoholism
or addiction. So I've just always
integrated Trying to get in as many members
of the family as I can when I'm working
with an individual.
Helen Sneed: Well, I think we want to hear more about that
as our conversation goes on. But
I'm going to start with a quote that I'm sure
you've heard, but that is one of my
favorites. And it's from Leo
Tolstoy. He said, all
happy families are alike.
Each unhappy family is unhappy
in its own way. Now
we are wrapping up a five part series
on family dynamics when there is a
psychiatric crisis. As I said earlier,
Lisa, if you could pinpoint a couple of
things that are imperative to healthy
family dynamics during such times,
what would they be?
Speaker A: Okay, there's so many
parts to this, but the two main ones I would
say is for the
family members to have open communication
to talk about it. It's just so important.
So many times family members will
isolate. And we were, I've heard
y' all talk about the stigma with men, with
men, addiction. And it just kills me that
it's still prevalent in some areas. But it
is. And so a lot of times family members will
not reach out to other people or talk
to each other about it. I think they feel so
helpless in making a change
with the person that is struggling with a
mental illness. The open communication,
the talking to each other. And then the
second thing I would say is reaching out for
help.
Valerie Milburn: Yes.
Speaker A: You know, reading all that you can about it,
finding some professionals that you feel
comfortable with seeing, those are probably
the two most important things. The
communication, the talking to each other and
finding some good help and support.
Valerie Milburn: I'm so glad to hear you say that because we,
you know, Helen and I really hammer on
that, that isolation is so deadly and
that education and help are just imperative.
So, so glad those are things that
you find important as well. And
in the role of families. We have a question
that I, you know, Helen and I have kicked
this around too. Have you found that the
family dynamic inevitably,
inevitably plays a definitive
role in a family member developing a mental
health.
Speaker A: Well, yes and no. I mean, because there
are some mental health disorders that
are genetic and
neurotransmitted or affect.
The neurotransmitters are affected.
Valerie Milburn: Right. So this is kind of also the nature
versus.
Speaker A: Okay, yes, absolutely.
So the family, maybe there aren't
dynamics in the family that cause
the mental health disturbance, but the family
still needs help in learning how to deal with
it. Absolutely.
Sometimes, you know, and sometimes there are
disorders that a lot of times that skip
a generation. So if, if a child,
a teenager maybe develops A thought
disorder, you know, one of the forms of
schizophrenia. Well, if mom or dad
don't relate, cannot relate to that, because
neither one had a thought disorder. One
of them may remember that one of their
parents did or an uncle did. It just skipped
a generation. Addiction does that a lot. You
know, it will. Maybe mom or dad don't become
addicted, but maybe a grandparent had it and
it skipped a generation, and then one of the
children inherits that genetic
component. So it's
funny, it's interesting, because sometimes
families will want to spend a lot of time in
trying to figure out. Sometimes it's about
to put blame on where these disorders
come from. So it's. It's interesting and
we'll talk about that. But really, the thing
that is most salient is, is how to treat
it and how to support everybody in the. In
the family.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, that's a tall order, I think. I do
remember, as, you know, far better than we
do.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah. I do remember once my mom saying, I
wonder where you got this. Yeah. Like, oh,
I'm not going there with you.
Helen Sneed: But, yeah, because. Well, this. This really
does lead to the next question, which is,
Lisa, as you know, in many therapeutic
approaches over many, many years,
the family is blamed for making the person
sick. Now, what has your own experience
taught you, and can you promote
understanding rather than blame? Is that
possible?
Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, sometimes
I felt like a detective,
a kind detective, kind, caring detective
with the family because I want to
understand, and I don't want to judge,
and I am not the expert
on their family. They are. And so I ask
questions for them to teach me about their
family. And. And it's kind
of like we're in this together.
And so I try to join with the family by not
judging them and not
acting like I think I know more than them,
because I really don't. They're teaching me.
So I hope that I'm modeling,
Promoting understanding as opposed to
blaming them. You know, it's. You know, when
Valerie was saying while ago, when her mother
was saying, wonder where you got this? You
know, I notice with families
and with individuals, too, you can ask
a question that will shut them down and you
won't get any further. So you don't want to
blame. You don't want to be
judgmental. You. I'm always saying
with the families, I see the thing
that I start off with a lot is I wonder,
you know, I'm wondering if. Blah, blah, blah.
And I ask a question because I don't know.
And I want them to help me understand
I don't want to go in, like, I think I'm the
expert because I'll lose them every time.
Yeah. And I want to keep them engaged. I want
to, and I do want to understand them.
Valerie Milburn: Well, that's the communication that
you're very good at. And you would want to go
back to what. I want to go back to what you
said earlier about communication being, you
know, the foundation of
helping your family member heal. And so how
do you counsel a family with communication
issues and poor communication skills? Can
they learn a common language?
Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely they can. And you
know, communication is not something that
we're taught a lot of times, so we don't
know how to do it well. And so I hope that I
model that for them. All I
know is it was very helpful in my
graduate program to learn active listening.
So when they are talking, the first thing
that I'm thinking is not how I'm going to
respond. I want to elicit more
information from them. You know,
I'm into what they're saying. And like I
said, I'm kind of a detective. I feel like a
detective. So I've got some questions I want
them to explain. The most important
thing at that moment to me is what they're
saying to me. Not what I have to respond to,
to them, but what they're saying to me.
So I hope I model active
listening and staying with them. And
you know, sometimes in the beginning with a
high conflict family, you have to
kind of lay out rules. No,
try not to interrupt. No,
no yelling. Keeping it calm
in the, in the session. And you know, most
of the times they can do that. Sometimes
things get heated and, and when,
when the energy picks up like that and it
gets heated, I get very calm.
I get very calm.
I learned that someone has to be, someone
has to be to bring the energy down, to
bring the reactivity down a little.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. Well, this
kind of leads to my next question, which is
boundaries, which we all know are so
important in all kinds of relationships. But
for families, are there boundaries you
recommend for family members to maintain
for their own well being while supporting
their loved one?
Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. And Helen, that's so
true. Boundaries are so
super, super important.
That's one of the things that we'll talk
about as I'm working with a family.
And boundaries are important, whether there's
been a huge psychiatric crisis or just in
regular family therapy, in
that the individual
self care of each of the members is very,
very important. And I try to teach them.
You know, what I'm learning now about
what we feel in our bodies, we can
feel in our bodies when somebody has
transgressed our boundaries and
when they feel, I try to teach them, when
they feel that that's the time to say
something and say something very kind.
Because a lot of times boundaries are stepped
over and the person doing the stepping over
didn't realize they did that. So they kind of
need to be educated, you know that.
I don't want to talk about an example, I
don't want to talk about that right now. Or
let's revisit that another time. Or
if you're being asked to do something
over what you feel comfortable doing, that
you say, no, I don't feel comfortable doing
that. But that it takes really good self
knowledge and being in touch with your body
to know if you can do that or not. Now if you
say yes and you do something against your
boundaries, that feels awful. It
feels awful. So you need to, you
know, honor that.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah, I had to learn to do that. And I
finally learned that I can say this is
a lot. I need to process this. I
promise to get back with you, but you know,
and usually at this point I'm crying, but I
can say I cannot talk about this right
now. And I, but I do say, you
know, I need to process this and I promise I
will get back with you, but not right now.
Speaker A: Oh, that's perfect. That, that is perfect.
And one other thing I'd like to say.
There's something that we talk about in
family therapy about rescuing.
It's never a good thing. It is not a good
thing. So if we go against our
boundaries and we say,
you know, we think, okay, they really need
this, they're asking me to do this and I
don't feel comfortable, but they really need
me. I mean, you know, what are they going to
do if I don't do this? If I don't, you know,
bail them out or whatever, again, that's not
good. I mean, it's an insult
to continually rescue
family members because you're really kind of
telling them you don't really have the
ability to get out of this scrape. But I
do. You know, it's a one up situation or
that's the thinking. I think, you know, I
will rush in and rescue you and
it's usually an insult. That's not a good
thing.
Helen Sneed: The rest, it also seems like you would learn
so much more by
watching how they naturally communicate with
each other rather than rescuing them.
Valerie Milburn: Yes.
Helen Sneed: You know what I mean? Because that to me
would be where you, you would learn so Much
about the family?
Speaker A: Yes. Oh, I. I'm telling you, those
sessions are so instructive.
I mean, you know, it for a while, I am
just watching because it. The way
they interact with each other, you know,
who's in control. Sometimes people are in
control in a strong, you know, an
overpowering way. And sometimes there will be
a family member that controls by silence, by
not saying, you know. And if you want the
truth of what's going on in a family, you
bring in the teenagers because they're the
truth tellers. You know,
I think it's interesting, too,
the other thing I've learned about kind of
these invisible cords or connections
that family members have. You know, a lot of
times family members, parents will try to
protect kids, say there's an affair going on.
They'll say the kids don't know about it, and
they'll try to protect kids. The kids always
know something's going on. They may not know
exactly what, but they know something is
going on. So learning how to be honest
in a developmentally correct way with what
they can handle is really important.
Valerie Milburn: My kids said I communicated a lot in
silence. And they called it the power of the
raised eyebrow.
Helen Sneed: Right.
Speaker A: Oh, gosh, yeah.
Valerie Milburn: So by all the
watching and calmness and learning,
what helps you determine that real
progress is being made within the family? Are
there signposts along the way?
Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
Usually they're. They're good about coming to
all their appointments. They're taking
advantage of all the help, so they'll come to
their appointments and they come in and they
work. You know, it's in the beginning,
sometimes there's a lot of work on my part.
You know, you're establishing boundaries in
the. In the session, you know, being
on time, paying your bill, you know, all that
kind of stuff. But after a while,
when they're really engaged, I.
It's. It's. I say it's kind of easy. It
flows. They're. They're engaged, they're
motivated, they're committed, and so they
come in ready to work. And one of the
things that I love. I so love this. And I
think the AA and NA program is so
wonderful about this. How
people in recovery learn.
Recovery from addiction learn themselves so
well. They. They have to. To. To know
what their triggers are to keep from
relapsing. So in mental health,
when I have a client come in, and instead of
saying, this is what they did to me, you
know, talking about another family member,
when they come in and they say, this is what
I did. This is how I feel this is what I did,
this is what I said. And they take ownership.
Whoa. That's such a wonderful sign.
Then we're off to the races. And what I tell
people, too, and it's so important.
And Valerie, you're such a good example of
this. And Helen, I'm sure, too, there is
a point, you know, in the very beginning of
healing, it's kind of hard, you know, there's
resistance and you're working, working
against years of, you know, either blowing up
or keeping everything in. But you
go to enough sessions and there is a
momentum that starts, that never
stops. It will go the rest of your life and
it will serve you later on when you're not in
that therapist's office, when you are in a
difficult situation, if you've had enough
therapy and healing, those healthy things
just kick in and you don't need the
therapist. It's all been internalized. And
you know, you. You know what to do when
you're triggered. You know what triggers you.
So that's what, to me, that's what I'm always
working for, is for a.
For the clients to come in and start
right off the bat talking about themselves,
not blaming, and also that
they come long enough and are committed long
enough that I can see that growth and healing
and in situations outside of the session,
that it's taken on a life of its own,
that they don't need the therapy so much that
they're doing it.
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Helen Sneed: Well, that's a. I'm sorry, that can
sound. I'm sure it can seem so magical
depending on the family and the situation,
but. But I'm thinking of some families I know
where I think, man, she'd have to wave a
wand. But that's okay.
Something will work, right?
Speaker A: It does take a while. It does. It can
take a while. Yes. To get to that point.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. Well, I find
all this so fascinating. Now, here's one
that I think is really important, which
is how can family members
identify the line between
being helpful and enabling
unhealthy behaviors?
Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
Helen Sneed: Well, one seems like you could really get.
You could really step in the hornet's nest if
you got into this kind of thing.
Speaker A: Yes. You know, on the one hand, it's.
It's about being in touch with yourself and
your boundaries. So there is such
a difference between being supportive and
helping, but not rescuing and not going
against your boundaries. And, you know, there
may be times that I loved something that
Bernadette said when she was talking.
Valerie's sister, when she was talking about,
you know, supporting Valerie during her
crisis. You family members
may be able to be there and be supportive and
be there for the children when there's a
crisis going on, but there may be a time
there may be something going on internally
with them, and they just have to say, okay, I
need to back away for a little bit. Not
forever, but for a little bit, I need
to back away and take care of my own mental
health and I'll be back. But I love that she
said something to Malcolm about it, too, that
just a little heads up. There's some things
going on with me. I want to be here for you
and for the kids, but I need to just step
away for a little bit. So it
let me jump in for a second.
Valerie Milburn: Also on that episode you're talking about
that Bernadette was on about the
not doing for me what I could do for myself
kind of thing. Not rescuing. She said at some
point she couldn't help me directly, but she
could help me by taking care of the kids. She
said at some point there was nothing she
could directly do for me, that she couldn't
rescue me. She had nothing. There was
nothing. I was. She couldn't do anything for
me. But take care of the kids. So that was
her not break, you know, crossing that line
of trying to rescue me rather than
supporting me. And so.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you
don't like, say, a person that's in recovery
from an addiction, you
don't want to ask about their program? You
know, I know in the beginning there's a lot
of fear about relapse and things like that,
but their program is their program. And
hopefully family members are going to Al Anon
or whatever. Their own self care
is very important. So
you. You want to be careful not to get
into that role
of having of kind of their police
or whatever, you know, to make sure they're
doing recovery correctly or whatever that's.
That's theirs really to do. And
I guess another thing I'd like to say is
that probably had to do. I should have said
this long ago. It takes a village. My
gosh, you know, it listening
to your family,
Valerie. And you know, Malcolm had his own
therapist. You had a good psychiatrist. You
all did couples therapy.
It takes all of that. And as a family
therapist, I can't do it all by myself
either. You know, I have a network of
psychiatrists and other therapists and
definitely the NA AAA community and
people that I know that are affiliated with
nami. It takes a whole
village. One person can't
do it by themselves with a family.
It takes a whole village to really help them
and everybody kind of playing their part and
getting releases signed so you can talk to
each other. It's. That's the best way to do
it in a perfect world.
Valerie Milburn: Well, talking
about bringing everybody in and taking a
village, when you're working with an
individual in therapy, when. What persuades
you to bring in their village? What persuade
you to bring in the family and involve the
family in their. In their therapy and their
treatment?
Speaker A: It's an interesting. That's an interesting
question because it seems to me like you kind
of have the mindset of a family systems
therapist or you don't. You know, I will
always prefer to bring in as many other
family members as I can. And in my own
therapy, when I was in therapy,
my therapist,
she'd get in any family members of mine that
she could. My mother lived on the other side
of Texas. And when my mother would come
visit, my therapist would say, you want to
bring your mother in next week? Yeah, I'll
bring her in. So. And you know, if things
were going on with my husband, she'd be like,
well, why don't you bring Craig in? So, okay,
yeah, I'll bring him in. And it was so
beneficial. I guess that's another thing that
influenced me, was her therapy with me.
And she. And it was interesting because
she'd been working with me for a long time,
but she was so kind and including when
my mother and my husband would come in, and
they didn't ever seem to feel like she and I
had this special relationship, and they were
like outsiders. She was masterful at
wondering, you know, and being
inclusive of everybody. So
I. I like, especially if it's a young person,
if it's late teens or early
20s, and a lot of times
with a thought disorder, one of the.
Maybe forms of schizophrenia or something
like that.
Those. Those young people
don't usually come in on their own.
They're usually in a crisis, and the family
will bring them in. But there are young
people that will have either one of the
thought disorders. I mean, one of the mood
disorders, I'm sorry, a form
of anxiety or depression. They're having
problems in college, and so they are
usually coming in on their own. And right off
the bat, I'll let them know. One of the
things that I'm. That I do is family
therapy. And so I
used to kind of almost have a rule that when
I saw these young people, I like to bring the
family in once every four to six weeks,
something like that, because I've just seen
too many young people find a
good individual therapist, and they grow and
heal. But, you know, our
issues don't start in a vacuum.
It's very good to
include the family. And a lot of times the
family feels like they're on the outside, and
so this one member is getting all this
work, and they really needed. Need to be
included. So I'm a big proponent of that, you
know, and I tell them right off the bat, like
I said, right off the bat. I'm also a family
therapist, and I'd like to see your family.
And then we kind of go from there. It's. It's
almost always helpful.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah. Malcolm talked about how. And I talked
about how grateful I was that I signed that
release so that my psychiatrist
could talk to him and that he did come in.
But even the ongoing communication when I was
super sick, that Malcolm was able to talk to
my psychiatrist was it. I knew it was
imperative. And he talked about it on the
podcast that he was so grateful to have that
communication with him.
Speaker A: I heard that that was so, so good that
that happened. I mean, it's. It's so
important to have that. One other thing I'd
like to Say about that, that as a
family therapist, if you have
an acting out young
person, their late teens, early 20s,
and it's not really a thought disorder, they
don't have schizophrenia or. But
they're acting out either. You
know, they're just not doing well, they're
not functioning well in their life. I mean, a
lot of times they're expressing
a symptom in the family. And so again,
you know, if you just work with them and you
don't involve the family,
you can help them in some ways. I mean, they
can learn about communication and, you know,
and develop a trusting relationship with you.
And that's good. But if that
symptom in the family, you know, if they
take away that if you don't help heal the
family, the family will replace it with
something else. I mean, it's just imperative
that you, that you include as many members of
the family as you can.
Helen Sneed: Well, that's, that's good to know. And I, I
wonder how many people have the
opportunity to actually do that, you know,
people in therapy that, that
don't have you. Yeah,
yeah, but here's a big one. And you know,
we're always, we like to get into the
pragmatic side of things. But what
skills, methods, pursuits, books, games,
group activities can bring a family together,
promote understanding, and provide an area
of stability in difficult,
volatile relationships?
Speaker A: Okay, let's see. Let's start with
kind of family activities that
could bring a family together,
especially if it is a family that is
disengaged. As a family therapist, I look
for either enmeshed families. You know,
they, they're too, they're,
they're not bonded because you want them to
have a bond, but they feel each other's
feelings too much. There's not much
individual being. They're, they're all kind
of fused. So there's that or there's a
disengaged family and every man is out for
himself. You know, they're, they're not
joined enough. So I would say
with some of those disengaged families, we'd
start looking for family activities that they
could do together where they
have just to be together, family
movie night, definitely that the parents are
doing things together as a couple.
There's a lot of different ways that you can
do that. Are the parents involved in the kids
sports? You know, what are some local
activities that they can go do together
as a family? Hiking, being out in nature.
You know, sometimes families get so busy
working and you know, they're just putting
one foot in front of the other. They've got
so much on their plate. Sometimes they don't
think about some of these activities they
could do. So fun activities.
Oh, I always look for the families that look
like they have fun together and they can be a
little light hearted sometimes they're very
serious and angry and it's just
right below the surface. So how to increase
fun in their lives.
But there's so much online
help these days.
I practice in a small town and we
don't have as many support groups but there
are a lot that is offered online
and I think there's a lot of NAMI groups.
Valerie Milburn: A lot of NAMI groups online. Yes.
Speaker A: Yeah. So getting involved in
some of those things. If there's an addiction
in the family, going to
Al Anon Alatein AA
na. You know, sometimes
those support groups have their own
communities and I found them and you know,
you want to be selective about the groups
that you go to because some are better than
others or some fill your needs better than
others. But starting to build a community
that you feel a part of.
Let's see, skills and methods.
I mean I'm always working on communication
with. With the family members. I
see. I did a fun
method with one of the families I saw
years ago when I was learning about the.
These energy centers in the body.
I had a mom and a dad and they had
three daughters and I think it was the oldest
daughter that was starting to have some
problems and they were real open to family
therap. So they came in and
the oldest daughter was, you know, she was a
pretty teenager. She's a little surly and a
little separate from everybody. And so I
did an exercise with them where I taught them
breathing and how to be grounded
and how to open their hearts. And we did it
together. And I had, I saw them a couple of
times not doing that exercise
and then it was probably like the third
session I did that exercise and just teaching
them how to open their hearts. Hearts while
they were talking to each other. It was
amazing. It was just amazing. So I'll try
to think of
little methods like that that to
me utilize the body, get them out of their
head and help them communicate
better with each other. Let's
see. Books. Gosh. I,
I was really hooked on all this is
back in the 90s though. Pia Melody and
John Bradshaw. All of the
books about adult children of alcoholics
because that my father died of
alcoholism and my, my oldest sister
died of addiction. So all those roles
and rules are. I really resonated to all
that. But there's a lot of new
family therapists that are so, they're so
good. I heard of
a new guy the other day, Gabor Mata.
Valerie Milburn: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: Excellent. People really respond to him. The
Brene Brown information is really great.
And, and I would say too, with. When family
members come in and there is a need for
psychiatrist and medication,
I'll, I'll point them to some of the
online resources like the American
Psychiatric Association. Mayo Clinic
has some good information. Duke University
has some good information. But to be very
care about that, I, I find that the hospitals
and the research hospitals are the best
place for information like, say, if they're
wanting to know some of the
characteristics of bipolar disorder or
fentanyl addiction or whatever, you know, be,
be careful online. Don't
just get it off a TikTok or wherever.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah.
Speaker A: Go to one of the, you know, tried and true
medical website.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah. My doctor said these are the ones you
can go to. These are the only ones you can go
to. And the three you just gave are the ones
he said. Yeah, yeah. And, and Harvard and
the other major research universities. But
those are the ones he, he gave. And, and
Helen and I rely on those as well for our own
research. Yeah.
Speaker A: What, what else can you, what else
can I add to that that you'd like to know?
Valerie Milburn: That those were great. Can you think of any
more?
Helen Sneed: Yeah, I think that was really, really
full of good advice
and ways. Again, it gets back
to the communications question. I think is so
important that a lot of these things I'm
asking about I think can help foster better
communications within the family and that
kind of thing.
Speaker A: Let me add one other thing because I think it
was your guest, Rebecca, that said
something about this that I thought was so
excellent. When we're talking about
communication, I always
tell my clients it's going to feel
uncomfortable because for those people that
kind of over emote, that are very emotional
and maybe they get angry real quickly, I'm
going to teach them how to pause, not
to emote when they're triggered. How to
pause. Pause their communication. And it is
the opposite with my clients that hold
everything in. I'm going to teach them to
speak up, you know, to, to let it come up
and out. So it depends on the person
about communication, but it's always
uncomfortable. It doesn't feel like the
natural thing because the natural thing to do
when they're triggered is to do what they've
always done, which, you know, I think
that she was talking about learning how to
pause when she was triggered. And I
loved, loved, love that because for Very
emotionally reactive people.
Pausing is what they need to learn.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah, it's one of the things I read every
morning. One of the lines, pause when
agitated or doubtful and ask for the next
right thought or action.
Speaker A: I love that.
Valerie Milburn: Try to do that.
Speaker A: Love that.
Valerie Milburn: I just want to throw in that NAMI's website
is easy to remember. It's NAMI n a
m
I.orgnami.org and
we always wrap up, which I hate to do. I hate
to wrap this conversation up. My God.
Speaker A: Gosh.
Valerie Milburn: But we always wrap up our conversations with
guests with a question about hope.
And here's yours, Lisa. What possibilities
and changes can occur within a family
dynamic that give you hope?
Speaker A: Oh, there's so much
reason to have hope that sometimes that's all
you got. That's all you got is
hope. When you
see family members working on their healing
and you see them talking to each other in a
way that they never did before,
and you see changes in their lives, they're
not just talking it, but you feel different
with them. You. You hear
differences in their stories, you
see them taking responsibility.
It all that gives me hope. And I know, like
I said, if I can help them get to a point
in that trajectory where
they'll. They won't go backwards. They just
won't. If they do enough work, it's onward.
It is. It is onward. And
this is what I was going to say to you,
Valerie, and to Helen, too. These.
I love to look at families from the big
picture, you know, because
families are timeless. There's always been
families, and anyone
member of a family, all it takes is one that
has done their work to heal, changes
the trajectory of a family for generations,
for generations. And I love family therapy
because I like to kind of hear where, you
know, maybe where did the grandparents come
from? What were the struggles they had?
Because then it will make that person sitting
in front of me. It makes much more sense to
me and to them. But their healing
causes a trajectory, and it makes
it. It more healthy for
all the future people in that family.
It just gives me the chills. I mean, this
work is. You know, it never felt like
a job to me. It always felt like a calling.
And it's magical because you see people
change is not easy, but it's so
rewarding. And to be able to see that
in front of your eyes. And I had to go
through my own, oh, therapy and support
groups and, you know, I did all that because
the family I came from, it helped me be a
better therapist. But it's, it's
Magical and wonderful. And there's a lot of
hope for the future. The stigma is being
taken away somewhat. The
medications that are available now
for, you know, for bipolar disorder,
depression and anxiety and
schizophrenia. I mean, there's a lot of stuff
around that was. Wasn't here when I started
my practice 40 years ago. A lot
of support, a lot of support groups,
a lot of education. People know a lot more
about mental illness and addiction. And, you
know, it's in all families. It's an office.
There's something in all families. Yeah.
Yeah. So hope is.
Absolutely. You want to keep the hope.
Helen Sneed: Well, I think that in
terms of looking at hope, which is something
that we. We do every. Every episode is that
to see that a change in
one family member, as you said, can.
Can influence the trajectory of the family
for generations to come, that. That's one of
the most hopeful things that I've ever heard.
Thank you for. Thanking you for bringing that
up.
Valerie Milburn: Sure, sure.
Helen Sneed: And this is. Unfortunately, we
don't want to do this, but this is sort of
where we're bringing our topic to an end.
And, Lisa, thank you for
your expression of hope and the countless
ways that you have enlightened us today. It's
simply. I couldn't count it if I tried.
And you see, it enriches all of
us to hear your professional perspective
and wisdom. And thank you so much for
being so forthcoming with it today.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you, my dear friend. Thank you. Thank
you.
Speaker A: So happy to be here. I'm happy I could help.
It's. I like talking about this stuff. I.
Yeah. Ask my family.
Helen Sneed: Well, it's endlessly fascinating and. And
I wish, again, I wish that we had another I
don't know day. But what we're going to do
now is what we always do, and that is to
turn to Valerie for a mindfulness
exercise.
Valerie Milburn: Yes. We will close today's episode in our
traditional way with a mindfulness
exercise. And what is mindfulness? I always
give a definition. Mindfulness is a
mental state achieved by focusing one's
awareness on the present moment while
calmly acknowledging and accepting
one's feelings, thoughts, and
bodily sensations without judgment.
Judgment. Today's mindfulness
exercise introduces a new breathing
technique. Now here on the Mental Health
Hope and Recovery podcast, we know the
importance of our breathing as a part of
successful meditation and mindfulness
practices. How we breathe
influences all sorts of things in our bodies.
Most significantly, how we breathe
directly influences our nervous system
system, which is responsible for how we feel
and how we interpret the world around
us. We have started every
mindfulness exercise since our first episode
with diaphragmatic breathing. And
today I'm going to lead us in a new type of
breathing, the technique of box
breathing. Now,
listeners, you know that Helen and I do
lots of research for each episode. So yes, I
research box breathing. And
in my research about box breathing, I learned
that it is used by U. S. Navy
SEALs. They use it to help them
stay calm and alert through any sort of
situation and they have some
intense stressful situations. So
author and former navy seal Mark
devine says it slows down
his breathing rate and deepens his
concentration in all sorts of
situations. Box breathing
has also been used as a treatment for
insomnia because it allows us to calm our
nervous system at night before bed.
The mayo clinic reports the benefits
of box breathing, in addition to the powerful
benefit of anxiety reduction, include
pain management and improved mood.
So what is box breathing? How does it
work? Box breathing is a
repetitive breathing pattern of four
equal length intervals. It
has a pattern of inhale, hold,
exhale, hold. An easy
way to do it is to close your eyes and
imagine a square. The pattern is to
breathe in for four seconds as you start from
the bottom left corner and move vertically
up the square. Then you hold your breath with
your lungs inflated for the next four seconds
as you move to the right at the top of the
square. From the top right corner, you
move down the square and exhale for the next
four seconds. Then finally you move left
along the bottom of the square as you hold
your breath with your lungs deflated for the
final four seconds. So you see, you just
moved around the square. Your
lungs are inflating as you move up
the square, square and deflating as you move
down the square. And you're holding your
breath as you move horizontally along the
top and bottom of the square. Sounds
confusing, but it's not. We're going to keep
running through it. So you inhale up,
hold across, exhale down,
hold across breathing as you go around
the square once again before we run through
it. Inhale up, hold
across, exhale down, hold
across. That's how you breathe as you go
around the square. And remember to breathe
through your nose and out through your mouth.
Let's run through it again before we try it.
Imagine a square inhale
for four seconds starting at the bottom left
corner and move up the square.
Hold your breath with your lungs inflated as
you move to the right, right from the top
right, move down,
exhaling for four seconds. Then you're going
to move left going along the bottom of the
square as you hold your breath.
Okay, let's try it.
Close your eyes if you can. If you're
walking or driving, please adapt this
exercise so that it's safe for your
surroundings.
Imagine a square
inhale.
Start from the bottom the left corner.
Go up the square.
Hold your breath with your lungs inflated.
Move to the right along the top of the
square.
From that right corner, move
downwards. Exhaling.
Now move left along the bottom line of the
square. Holding your breath.
Let's do it again. Still imagining
the square. Inhale up the left side
of the square. Hold your
breath with your lungs inflated. Moving to
the right.
Exhale down the right side of the square.
Hold your breath with your lungs deflated,
moving along the left bottom of the square.
Inhale up.
Hold your breath going to the right.
Exhale down.
Hold your breath going to the left.
Inhale up.
Hold your breath going to the right.
Exhale down.
Hold your breath going to the left.
If your eyes are closed, please open
them and gently bring yourself back to the
room.
When you feel anxiety or stress rising in
your body, remember there are things that can
be done to calm down those areas of the
brain. Brain. Try
picturing the box. Trace the edges.
Inhale, hold. Exhale,
hold. Inhale, hold.
Exhale, hold. Try it. Use it.
Thank you for doing this mindfulness exercise
with me.
Helen Sneed: Well, thank you, Valerie. I worked very hard
to follow your directions for this because
it's so refreshing to learn another method of
breathing.
Speaker A: Breathing.
Helen Sneed: I think I have a ways to go, but I've got a
good start today. And
Lisa, our deepest gratitude for
the much needed wisdom and insight that you
gave us today. Thank you so much.
And to our listeners, family members around
the globe, thank you for joining us for the
family series and for the terrific responses
we've gotten from our worldwide audiences.
Our next episode features a brilliant book
with its co author as our guest. The
book is called When a Loved One Won't
Seek Mental Health Treatment. And it deals
with one of the biggest concerns that Valerie
and I encounter in our work everywhere. We
encourage all of you to join us.
And now I leave you with our favorite
word, Onward.
Valerie Milburn: Sam.