WEBVTT 0 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:01.120 Professor Fred Watson: Hi there. 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:03.400 Andrew Dunkley: Thank you for joining us. This is Space Nuts 2 00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:06.040 and it's a Q and A edition. My name is Andrew 3 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:09.000 Dunkley. What's Q and A stand for? I don't 4 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:11.360 know, but we've got questions, uh, from our 5 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:13.040 audience, which we will answer. 6 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:15.360 Qa. Oh, there it is. 7 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:18.400 Um, Casey wants to know about dark matter 8 00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:20.480 stars even though they don't exist. And we 9 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:21.360 can't answer the question. 10 00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:22.640 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, Michael. 11 00:00:23.180 --> 00:00:25.600 Andrew Dunkley: Um, he's sent one in about dormant 12 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:28.360 comets, uh, which, uh, I found most 13 00:00:28.360 --> 00:00:30.120 intriguing. So it'd be interesting to 14 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:32.940 discover what that's about. Uh, Derek is 15 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:35.500 asking about gravitational slingshots, 16 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.820 and Jason is asking what 17 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:41.420 Fred Watson thinks of the new wave of 18 00:00:41.420 --> 00:00:43.660 smart telescopes. Ooh. 19 00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:46.460 Uh, we'll talk about all of that on this 20 00:00:46.460 --> 00:00:48.460 episode of space nuts. 21 00:00:48.620 --> 00:00:51.100 Andrew Dunkley: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 22 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:52.860 10, 9. 23 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:55.864 Professor Fred Watson: Ignition sequence start. Space nuts. 24 00:00:55.936 --> 00:00:58.744 Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 25 00:00:58.816 --> 00:01:00.940 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. 26 00:01:01.020 --> 00:01:03.810 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts. Astronauts report at mill. 27 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:04.120 Andrew Dunkley: Good. 28 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:07.200 Andrew Dunkley: And he's, uh, back again to try and sort all 29 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:09.480 that out. It's Professor Fred Watson Watson, 30 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.080 astronomer at large. Hello, Fred Watson. 31 00:01:11.240 --> 00:01:13.400 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Very good to see you again. 32 00:01:13.880 --> 00:01:15.560 Andrew Dunkley: And you too. It's been minutes. 33 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.560 Professor Fred Watson: It has. Um, uh, I might add a postscript 34 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:22.200 to, um, when we recorded the last session. 35 00:01:22.360 --> 00:01:25.040 Yeah, I just, uh, got back from the annual 36 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:27.880 science meeting of the Astronomical Society 37 00:01:27.880 --> 00:01:30.360 of Australia. And I meant to mention that, 38 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.280 um, an old friend of Space Nuts was 39 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.030 there and I had dinner with him, um, 40 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:37.900 on the first night. And that is Peter 41 00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:40.820 Verwein, who is our contact in 42 00:01:40.820 --> 00:01:43.340 the world of mond. Uh, modified Newtonian 43 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:45.750 dynamics. Yeah. So, uh, 44 00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:48.260 terrific. Nice to do. He's still 45 00:01:48.260 --> 00:01:51.020 monding, although, um, I think 46 00:01:51.020 --> 00:01:53.940 he's had some hurdles to overcome. So 47 00:01:53.940 --> 00:01:56.860 we might have to do an update on that down 48 00:01:56.860 --> 00:01:57.300 the track. 49 00:01:57.460 --> 00:01:59.340 Andrew Dunkley: Well, while we're sending shout outs, I'll 50 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:02.190 send a shout out to an Instagram, um, 51 00:02:02.930 --> 00:02:05.330 presence person named the Greens 52 00:02:05.410 --> 00:02:08.210 Goddess, Uh, a female golfer who, 53 00:02:08.300 --> 00:02:11.050 uh, started following me, I don't know, some 54 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:12.690 time ago. And I thought, I'll do the honour 55 00:02:12.690 --> 00:02:15.090 of following her back. And, uh, she posted a 56 00:02:15.090 --> 00:02:17.330 video of her swing the other day and I noted 57 00:02:17.330 --> 00:02:20.330 a couple of issues with it. So 58 00:02:20.330 --> 00:02:23.090 I sent her a note and said, look, you got a 59 00:02:23.090 --> 00:02:24.930 bit of a reverse pivot going there. 60 00:02:26.210 --> 00:02:29.170 Try this drill to sort it out. 61 00:02:29.170 --> 00:02:30.730 Anyway, she sent a note back and said, oh, 62 00:02:30.730 --> 00:02:33.570 that's very helpful. By the way, big fan of 63 00:02:33.570 --> 00:02:34.410 Space Nuts. 64 00:02:34.410 --> 00:02:36.490 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, that's nice. 65 00:02:36.570 --> 00:02:38.050 Andrew Dunkley: Might have been why she followed me in the 66 00:02:38.050 --> 00:02:38.490 first place. 67 00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:40.330 Professor Fred Watson: But anyway, good on the Green Goddess. 68 00:02:40.410 --> 00:02:43.210 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, good for her. All right, 69 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:45.330 um, shall we answer Some questions, 70 00:02:45.330 --> 00:02:45.770 Fred Watson. 71 00:02:46.010 --> 00:02:47.170 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, we might as well might. 72 00:02:47.170 --> 00:02:48.010 We know we're here. 73 00:02:48.570 --> 00:02:50.930 Andrew Dunkley: Let's get into our first one. And it comes 74 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.250 from one of our regular contributors. This is 75 00:02:53.250 --> 00:02:53.850 Casey. 76 00:02:54.160 --> 00:02:56.880 Andrew Dunkley: Hello, Fred Watson, Andrew and Huw. This is 77 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:59.680 Casey from Colorado. I know 78 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.680 that dark matter stars are completely 79 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.680 hypothetical at this point. I've read 80 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:06.680 before that they would be some of the 81 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:08.480 brightest objects in the sky. If they do 82 00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:11.280 exist though, I was wondering if you could 83 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.760 please explain why that is and also how they 84 00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:16.000 can get so hot without any fusion. 85 00:03:16.720 --> 00:03:18.440 Hope you're both well and thanks for the 86 00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:19.040 podcast. 87 00:03:20.250 --> 00:03:21.770 Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Casey. I just knocked everything 88 00:03:21.770 --> 00:03:24.730 over on my desk, but, um, it'll wash out, 89 00:03:25.110 --> 00:03:27.530 um, dark matter stars. 90 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:30.650 I think somebody's brought these up once 91 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:33.570 before, if I'm correct in my thinking. 92 00:03:33.570 --> 00:03:36.530 But, um, maybe we should start by 93 00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:38.130 trying to explain what they're supposed to 94 00:03:38.130 --> 00:03:38.410 be. 95 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:41.610 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, well, that's right. Uh, um, 96 00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:45.370 uh, first of all, Dark matter 97 00:03:45.370 --> 00:03:47.570 is still hypothesised, really, 98 00:03:47.570 --> 00:03:49.810 notwithstanding, uh, what we're just saying 99 00:03:49.810 --> 00:03:52.220 about, um, Peter Verweil. And that is an 100 00:03:52.220 --> 00:03:55.140 alternative theory to try and account for 101 00:03:55.140 --> 00:03:58.030 the, uh, low, um, 102 00:03:58.900 --> 00:04:01.780 the way, uh, the galaxies tell 103 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:03.340 us that there is something there that we 104 00:04:03.340 --> 00:04:06.180 can't see. Uh, um, his 105 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.180 uh, version of that is something called 106 00:04:08.420 --> 00:04:10.620 modified Newtonian dynamics that suggests 107 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:13.260 that accelerations, uh, do not follow the 108 00:04:13.260 --> 00:04:16.020 normal Newtonian rules at very low levels. 109 00:04:16.820 --> 00:04:19.390 I think that's going into doubt though now. 110 00:04:19.390 --> 00:04:22.270 So I think, I suspect that dark matter 111 00:04:22.430 --> 00:04:25.150 is, um, basically 112 00:04:26.510 --> 00:04:28.670 consolidating, uh, its position as the 113 00:04:29.150 --> 00:04:31.870 number, um, one theory for why galaxies don't 114 00:04:31.870 --> 00:04:33.789 just fly apart because they've got all this 115 00:04:33.789 --> 00:04:35.790 stuff in them that we called out matter. So I 116 00:04:35.790 --> 00:04:38.190 think it's true to say, um, that 117 00:04:38.510 --> 00:04:40.190 despite a few people looking in other 118 00:04:40.190 --> 00:04:43.070 directions, most of the scientific community 119 00:04:43.310 --> 00:04:46.190 believes that we are in a universe 120 00:04:46.670 --> 00:04:48.910 whose matter content is dominated by 121 00:04:48.910 --> 00:04:51.290 something that we see sort of outweighs 122 00:04:51.290 --> 00:04:54.170 normal matter by five to one. Yeah, uh, and 123 00:04:54.170 --> 00:04:56.530 it's probably some sort of subatomic particle 124 00:04:56.530 --> 00:04:59.130 that we just have not, uh, come to grips with 125 00:04:59.130 --> 00:05:01.690 yet. Now, once you accept 126 00:05:02.330 --> 00:05:04.970 the idea of new 127 00:05:04.970 --> 00:05:07.570 species of subatomic particles that only 128 00:05:07.570 --> 00:05:10.360 interact with, uh, 129 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:12.130 everything else through gravity, they don't 130 00:05:12.130 --> 00:05:15.050 interact through electromagnetic radiation or 131 00:05:15.050 --> 00:05:17.770 any other kind of, uh, particle physics. 132 00:05:17.770 --> 00:05:20.410 It's only gravity that lets us know that 133 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.070 these things, uh, these dark matter 134 00:05:23.070 --> 00:05:25.670 particles are there, hypothesised still, but 135 00:05:26.070 --> 00:05:28.750 likely to be there. Uh, and it's their own 136 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:30.790 gravitational attraction that stops galaxies 137 00:05:30.790 --> 00:05:32.870 falling apart or flying apart because they're 138 00:05:32.870 --> 00:05:35.870 rotating too quickly. So that's what dark 139 00:05:35.870 --> 00:05:37.530 matter is now, um, 140 00:05:38.710 --> 00:05:40.870 on that bare 141 00:05:41.590 --> 00:05:44.030 framework or foundation. Scientists have 142 00:05:44.030 --> 00:05:46.190 built up some models of what dark matter 143 00:05:46.190 --> 00:05:48.790 particles might be. And 144 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:52.040 um, in particular there is an 145 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.640 idea that if dark matter 146 00:05:54.640 --> 00:05:57.440 particles come together, then 147 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.160 a bit like matter and antimatter, 148 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:03.040 they would annihilate and 149 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.160 basically produce radiation. 150 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.320 And that's the idea of a dark matter star 151 00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:11.680 that you've got a, uh, hypothetical object, 152 00:06:12.520 --> 00:06:15.280 um, bigger than your average solar system. 153 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:16.720 So they're very large. 154 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:17.520 Andrew Dunkley: Wow. 155 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.560 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, made of dark matter. Uh, but 156 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.360 what makes them shine is the dark matter 157 00:06:23.760 --> 00:06:25.840 particles self annihilating. 158 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:29.760 Uh, and there are some 159 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.000 pundits who believe 160 00:06:33.280 --> 00:06:35.840 that the very first stars that 161 00:06:35.840 --> 00:06:38.560 formed when the universe was in its infancy 162 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.310 were actually dark matter stars. Uh, 163 00:06:41.310 --> 00:06:43.840 were these ones that are super 164 00:06:43.840 --> 00:06:46.640 bright in the sense that they emit a 165 00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:49.510 large amount of radiation, but not, 166 00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:52.500 not super bright in a way that you 167 00:06:52.500 --> 00:06:55.260 might imagine. And that's because they are so 168 00:06:55.260 --> 00:06:57.420 big. Um, they are 169 00:06:57.900 --> 00:07:00.860 basically puffed up by the 170 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:03.960 energy coming from this radiation. Uh, 171 00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:06.860 but because they're so big, their surfaces, 172 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:10.340 uh, are relatively cool. And so 173 00:07:10.340 --> 00:07:13.340 what you see is an object in the infrared. 174 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:16.700 Uh, if you're looking out for a dark matter 175 00:07:16.700 --> 00:07:18.690 star or what you would see 176 00:07:20.290 --> 00:07:21.330 if they existed. 177 00:07:21.410 --> 00:07:22.770 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I get it. 178 00:07:23.820 --> 00:07:26.490 Professor Fred Watson: Um, so that's why that's basically where the 179 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:28.530 energy comes from, the annihilation of dark 180 00:07:28.530 --> 00:07:30.290 matter particles. Self annihilation. 181 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.649 Um, but yet 182 00:07:33.810 --> 00:07:36.370 they're bright, um, because of 183 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:39.170 basically the amount of radiation 184 00:07:39.170 --> 00:07:42.100 that they generate with these, uh, uh, 185 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:45.010 annihilation that makes them bright and they 186 00:07:45.270 --> 00:07:47.190 get uh, to something like 10 187 00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:50.150 billion times more 188 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:53.230 energetic than the sun in terms of the 189 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:55.870 energy that they release. Uh, but as I said, 190 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:58.470 it's infrared radiation. So they're really 191 00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.269 releasing it, um, in the form of 192 00:08:01.269 --> 00:08:01.590 heat. 193 00:08:01.830 --> 00:08:04.030 Andrew Dunkley: So in terms of naked eye observation, you 194 00:08:04.030 --> 00:08:04.870 can't see a thing. 195 00:08:05.350 --> 00:08:07.790 Professor Fred Watson: I think that's right, yes. I mean there would 196 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:09.790 also be. If we're seeing them in the early 197 00:08:09.790 --> 00:08:12.710 universe, these things will be very highly 198 00:08:12.710 --> 00:08:15.190 redshifted. That means their light will not 199 00:08:15.190 --> 00:08:17.630 only be infrared, but it'll be even redder 200 00:08:17.630 --> 00:08:20.150 than red infrared, uh, because of the 201 00:08:20.150 --> 00:08:22.150 expansion of the universe stretching out the 202 00:08:22.150 --> 00:08:25.070 light waves. Um, so, uh, they 203 00:08:25.070 --> 00:08:27.230 might be quite difficult, might be quite 204 00:08:27.230 --> 00:08:30.190 difficult to detect. However, uh, it's 205 00:08:30.270 --> 00:08:32.950 basically, uh, one of the things that the 206 00:08:32.950 --> 00:08:35.270 James Webb telescope is looking for. It's 207 00:08:35.270 --> 00:08:37.270 looking for any evidence of dark matter 208 00:08:37.270 --> 00:08:37.870 stars. 209 00:08:38.110 --> 00:08:41.020 Andrew Dunkley: So where a normal star like ours, um, 210 00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:43.410 depletes its fuel and then turns into a 211 00:08:44.050 --> 00:08:46.170 red giant and then collapses into a white 212 00:08:46.170 --> 00:08:48.570 dwarf, a dark matter star 213 00:08:48.570 --> 00:08:49.810 annihilates itself. 214 00:08:50.130 --> 00:08:51.770 Professor Fred Watson: I think that would be right. I think it would 215 00:08:51.770 --> 00:08:53.570 just basically fizzle out 216 00:08:54.370 --> 00:08:56.690 Evaporate and fizzle out. Yeah. 217 00:08:56.770 --> 00:08:57.409 Andrew Dunkley: Okay. 218 00:08:57.490 --> 00:08:57.890 Andrew Dunkley: Wow. 219 00:08:57.890 --> 00:08:58.290 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. 220 00:08:58.770 --> 00:09:01.490 Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Casey. Um, haven't found one yet, 221 00:09:01.490 --> 00:09:04.490 but if you do stumble across one, let us 222 00:09:04.490 --> 00:09:04.770 know. 223 00:09:05.090 --> 00:09:06.250 Professor Fred Watson: Just hand it in, please. 224 00:09:06.250 --> 00:09:08.650 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. Just don't forget to put it in a 225 00:09:08.650 --> 00:09:09.330 lead box. 226 00:09:10.130 --> 00:09:10.850 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. 227 00:09:12.370 --> 00:09:13.470 Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for the, the question. 228 00:09:13.470 --> 00:09:15.470 Our next question, Fred Watson, comes from 229 00:09:16.190 --> 00:09:18.600 Michael. Uh, he said, I understand that. Oh, 230 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:20.910 uh, he says, andrew, I apologise. I still not 231 00:09:20.910 --> 00:09:23.390 do not have questions, uh, about dark matter. 232 00:09:23.390 --> 00:09:26.380 It's all right, person before you did it. Uh, 233 00:09:26.430 --> 00:09:28.670 as I have a firm understanding of how coffee 234 00:09:28.670 --> 00:09:31.390 and Coca Cola power my day, uh, I understand 235 00:09:31.550 --> 00:09:33.990 that dormant comments have been suggested 236 00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:36.350 with a few even confirmed inside the snow 237 00:09:36.350 --> 00:09:39.150 line, I'm wondering how many might exist. 238 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:42.710 Seven. There's seven. I have 239 00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:45.630 no idea. Uh, and how, uh, a, uh, best 240 00:09:45.630 --> 00:09:48.270 guess might be made to arrive at that number. 241 00:09:48.510 --> 00:09:51.390 It was my best guess. I'm going. Well here. 242 00:09:51.660 --> 00:09:52.910 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, you are, you're guessing. 243 00:09:52.910 --> 00:09:55.430 Andrew Dunkley: Well, other than infrared telescopes and 244 00:09:55.430 --> 00:09:57.510 cameras looking for low temperature dark 245 00:09:57.510 --> 00:10:00.270 objects, what instruments on a smaller 246 00:10:00.270 --> 00:10:02.990 satellite might be best for searching for 247 00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:05.950 either or both of the Earth Sun Trojan 248 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:08.610 Lagrange points? Uh, that comes from Michael. 249 00:10:08.610 --> 00:10:11.130 Now I'm assuming Michael's in Alberta because 250 00:10:11.130 --> 00:10:13.930 I'm going off his email address and it had 251 00:10:13.930 --> 00:10:16.770 the abbreviation AB And I looked that up and 252 00:10:16.770 --> 00:10:19.490 that's the abbreviation for the Province of 253 00:10:19.490 --> 00:10:22.130 Alberta, Canada. But I might be wrong and I'm 254 00:10:22.130 --> 00:10:24.170 sorry if I'm way off the map, 255 00:10:24.730 --> 00:10:26.730 Michael, but thanks, uh, for the question. 256 00:10:27.530 --> 00:10:30.250 Okay, um, are there, 257 00:10:30.410 --> 00:10:32.090 are there, um, yes. 258 00:10:33.050 --> 00:10:33.610 Comets? 259 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.240 Professor Fred Watson: Thought to be. So, um, what's a dormant 260 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.040 comet? Uh, well, it is, 261 00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:41.400 it would be a comet that has, 262 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:45.320 uh, gone past the sun several 263 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.440 times in its lifetime. I think that's 264 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.140 probably the bottom line. Uh, 265 00:10:50.520 --> 00:10:52.920 it's an old comet 266 00:10:53.640 --> 00:10:56.360 and uh, because 267 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:58.840 every time a comet gets near the sun, 268 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.870 it's basically radiates its uh, 269 00:11:02.330 --> 00:11:05.290 gas and dust into space. Uh, the gas 270 00:11:05.290 --> 00:11:07.570 turns into a kind of plasma. It's excited by 271 00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:10.490 the sun's radiation. Uh, and 272 00:11:10.490 --> 00:11:12.890 so you get what we call a gas tail for a 273 00:11:12.890 --> 00:11:15.650 comet. And um, you can also get a dust tail 274 00:11:15.650 --> 00:11:18.410 because comets are dusty objects with this 275 00:11:18.410 --> 00:11:21.090 sort of frozen gas around them. The 276 00:11:21.090 --> 00:11:23.850 dust leaks out when the gas blows away. 277 00:11:24.330 --> 00:11:26.810 And so you get uh, comets that have two 278 00:11:26.810 --> 00:11:28.490 tails. So um, 279 00:11:29.450 --> 00:11:32.450 imagine, uh, one of these things that's 280 00:11:32.450 --> 00:11:35.290 gone, ah, round the sun several 281 00:11:35.290 --> 00:11:37.450 times. And basically 282 00:11:41.370 --> 00:11:44.010 it would have a kind of crusty 283 00:11:44.010 --> 00:11:45.850 layer to it, an outer layer, 284 00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:49.250 uh, which is the dust sort of 285 00:11:49.250 --> 00:11:51.970 coagulating on the surface. So the 286 00:11:51.970 --> 00:11:54.860 gases has been blowing dust off. 287 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:57.740 But there's still a residual dust layer 288 00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:00.420 that might give you this crust 289 00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:03.180 around the edge of it. That means that even 290 00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:06.140 though it goes near the sun, the sun doesn't 291 00:12:06.140 --> 00:12:09.020 penetrate, uh, the sun's radiation and heat 292 00:12:09.020 --> 00:12:11.100 don't penetrate the dust. And so it doesn't 293 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:13.900 actually, uh, stir into action. It doesn't 294 00:12:13.900 --> 00:12:15.980 start behaving like a comet which is to 295 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:17.460 release its gas and dust. 296 00:12:17.540 --> 00:12:18.180 Andrew Dunkley: Okay. 297 00:12:18.370 --> 00:12:20.660 Professor Fred Watson: Um, and so, uh, that, 298 00:12:21.170 --> 00:12:23.500 uh, you know, that would, that would be a 299 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:26.160 dormant comet once one that's gone to sleep. 300 00:12:26.670 --> 00:12:29.440 Um, what might stir it back into 301 00:12:30.160 --> 00:12:32.720 action is if you 302 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.520 had a dormant comet colliding 303 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:38.440 with something else. Uh, hopefully not the 304 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:40.800 Earth. Uh, but you know, maybe another, 305 00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:43.840 another, um, an asteroid or 306 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.520 something like that, uh, that might 307 00:12:46.520 --> 00:12:49.200 disturb that, that 308 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:53.000 dusty crust on the outside or crusty 309 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.960 dust, uh, the sort of crust of the. Over the. 310 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.740 I. If you could expose 311 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:01.740 the icy surface to the sun's radiation, then 312 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:04.900 it would basically start giving you what, ah, 313 00:13:05.060 --> 00:13:07.940 we would call an active comet as well. Um, I 314 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:09.780 mean the way they are. And this is really the 315 00:13:09.780 --> 00:13:11.220 nub of the question, I guess, how do you 316 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:13.340 detect them? Because the problem is, 317 00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:16.700 um, if you've got a comet, even though it's 318 00:13:16.700 --> 00:13:18.580 made mostly of ice, uh, 319 00:13:19.660 --> 00:13:22.660 uh, if it's got this, um, dark 320 00:13:22.660 --> 00:13:25.380 crust on the outside of it, there's very 321 00:13:25.380 --> 00:13:27.660 little to distinguish that from an asteroid. 322 00:13:28.540 --> 00:13:31.370 Um, and so how do you know whether this 323 00:13:31.370 --> 00:13:33.770 is a dormant comet or an asteroid? 324 00:13:34.410 --> 00:13:37.180 And it's really quite hard to do. Um, 325 00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:39.450 there's not that much to choose between them. 326 00:13:39.450 --> 00:13:42.050 You will be looking at a kind of thermal 327 00:13:42.050 --> 00:13:44.970 signature because, um, asteroids are cold 328 00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:47.850 rock. Uh, dormant comets 329 00:13:47.850 --> 00:13:50.810 are cold ice with a kind of rocky, 330 00:13:50.810 --> 00:13:53.570 sort of dusty, um, rocky layer on the 331 00:13:53.570 --> 00:13:56.010 outside. Uh, there's not that much to 332 00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:58.250 differentiate between them until you knock 333 00:13:58.250 --> 00:13:59.830 some of the dust off and the thing. Thing 334 00:13:59.830 --> 00:14:00.470 wakes up. 335 00:14:01.110 --> 00:14:01.670 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. 336 00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:04.480 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, so, um, 337 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:08.150 I think, uh, there's scope for us 338 00:14:08.470 --> 00:14:11.030 trying to do a survey. But it will be hard 339 00:14:11.510 --> 00:14:13.990 to know, uh, whether 340 00:14:14.870 --> 00:14:17.070 you've picked a dormant comet or you've got 341 00:14:17.070 --> 00:14:18.790 an asteroid. And it may well be that some of 342 00:14:18.790 --> 00:14:20.670 the asteroids that we consider to be 343 00:14:20.670 --> 00:14:22.710 asteroids are actually dormant comets. 344 00:14:23.270 --> 00:14:25.630 Andrew Dunkley: So they're super duper old. I suppose the 345 00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:27.550 smoking gun would be. Most of them have got 346 00:14:27.550 --> 00:14:28.310 Zimmer frames. 347 00:14:30.390 --> 00:14:33.270 Professor Fred Watson: Could be, yep. Um, comet. Zimmer frame. 348 00:14:34.550 --> 00:14:36.310 Yes. I like the sound of that. 349 00:14:36.310 --> 00:14:37.110 Andrew Dunkley: You never know. 350 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:37.360 Professor Fred Watson: Um, 351 00:14:39.190 --> 00:14:41.670 Andrew Dunkley: worth looking for or not. But 352 00:14:41.990 --> 00:14:44.150 yeah. Okay, so, um, so 353 00:14:44.950 --> 00:14:47.190 they might be out there. When Michael said 354 00:14:47.190 --> 00:14:49.550 that, uh, a few have been confirmed in the 355 00:14:49.550 --> 00:14:52.310 snow line. What's, what's he 356 00:14:52.310 --> 00:14:52.950 Meaning there. 357 00:14:53.030 --> 00:14:55.430 Professor Fred Watson: So that means. So the snow line is, 358 00:14:55.640 --> 00:14:58.590 um, basically it's on the far side 359 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:01.290 of Mars's orbit. Ye, where, um, 360 00:15:02.850 --> 00:15:05.850 water vapour stops being vapour and 361 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:08.850 freezes. It's the, uh, sort 362 00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:11.330 of outer side of the 363 00:15:11.330 --> 00:15:12.930 Goldilocks zone. 364 00:15:13.570 --> 00:15:16.409 Andrew Dunkley: Okay, fair enough. Michael, thanks for the 365 00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:18.490 question. Um, that was fascinating. Um, 366 00:15:19.170 --> 00:15:22.090 and um, yeah, I suppose one day someone might 367 00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.970 go, aha, I've found a way. And then 368 00:15:24.970 --> 00:15:27.530 we've got the answer. This is Space 369 00:15:27.530 --> 00:15:29.570 Nuts, Andrew Dunkley with Professor 370 00:15:29.570 --> 00:15:30.530 Fred Watson Watson. 371 00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:35.510 Space Nuts. Oh, that was. That 372 00:15:35.510 --> 00:15:38.510 was it. That was so short. I'm going to 373 00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:39.950 do it again. Space Nuts. 374 00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:42.150 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. He's got a very nice voice, hasn't he? 375 00:15:42.150 --> 00:15:44.830 Andrew Dunkley: He has, yes. I can do that on my 376 00:15:44.830 --> 00:15:47.710 machine. Hang on. Yeah, wait for 377 00:15:47.710 --> 00:15:48.870 it. Uh, not there. 378 00:15:48.870 --> 00:15:48.960 Professor Fred Watson: Okay. 379 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.070 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, no, not there. Oh, here it is. 380 00:15:51.790 --> 00:15:52.990 Space Nuts. 381 00:15:57.550 --> 00:16:00.130 Professor Fred Watson: I, um. Yeah, I think you need some, uh, 382 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:01.720 Gaviscon or something. 383 00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:04.120 Andrew Dunkley: I can do it with this one. 384 00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:10.280 Yeah, I could go on forever. 385 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:11.400 Professor Fred Watson: I know you could, 386 00:16:13.160 --> 00:16:15.160 Andrew Dunkley: but I won't. Um, we'll go to it. 387 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:15.680 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. 388 00:16:15.680 --> 00:16:17.720 Professor Fred Watson: Anyway, I'm sure you can use that, uh, in 389 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.080 suitable, uh, environments that, um, I 390 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.760 mean audio environments that might intrigue 391 00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:26.510 our listeners or otherwise, um, confuse 392 00:16:26.510 --> 00:16:26.790 them. 393 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:27.590 Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. 394 00:16:28.550 --> 00:16:30.310 Our next question comes from Derek. 395 00:16:30.310 --> 00:16:33.150 Andrew Dunkley: Hi guys, this is Derek from southern Ontario 396 00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:36.150 and Canada. Again, um, just wondering if 397 00:16:36.150 --> 00:16:38.990 you could explain the orbital 398 00:16:38.990 --> 00:16:41.990 mechanics behind Slingshots. Gravitational 399 00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:44.710 slingshots. And uh, I'm trying 400 00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:47.630 to understand whether the rotation of 401 00:16:47.630 --> 00:16:49.430 the planet has anything to do with that 402 00:16:49.430 --> 00:16:52.430 slingshot or if it's just, uh, uh, in 403 00:16:52.430 --> 00:16:55.330 terms of how close you get to the planet. Um, 404 00:16:55.330 --> 00:16:57.170 if you can elaborate a little bit on that, 405 00:16:57.170 --> 00:16:58.730 that would be great. Thank you. Love the 406 00:16:58.730 --> 00:16:59.890 podcast. Have a great day. 407 00:17:00.050 --> 00:17:02.130 Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Derek. Uh, it's a good question, 408 00:17:02.310 --> 00:17:05.210 uh, and I think we've seen 409 00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:07.810 it used, uh, many times for some of these 410 00:17:07.810 --> 00:17:10.530 probes that have been sent, um, way out 411 00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:13.009 into the solar system because we 412 00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:15.850 find it's uh, a much more efficient way of 413 00:17:15.850 --> 00:17:17.410 doing things because we haven't got the fuel 414 00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:19.970 to send them all the way in under their own 415 00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:21.610 steam. That was certainly the case with the 416 00:17:21.610 --> 00:17:24.549 Voyagers, uh, and they were two 417 00:17:24.549 --> 00:17:27.069 of the best examples of using the gas giants 418 00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:29.869 for slingshots, um, but 419 00:17:29.869 --> 00:17:32.389 even launching things off our own planet. 420 00:17:32.389 --> 00:17:34.069 There's a bit of slingshot effect, isn't 421 00:17:34.069 --> 00:17:34.349 there? 422 00:17:35.340 --> 00:17:37.949 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, that's right, there is. Um, so, 423 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:41.189 um, it's not just getting to the outer 424 00:17:41.189 --> 00:17:43.240 solar system. I think, um, the uh, 425 00:17:43.389 --> 00:17:46.349 Bepicolombo, uh, spacecraft which is on 426 00:17:46.349 --> 00:17:48.629 its way to Mercury, I think that's had 427 00:17:48.629 --> 00:17:51.029 Something like seven slingshots with Venus 428 00:17:51.029 --> 00:17:52.909 and the Earth. That's right. Might be 429 00:17:52.909 --> 00:17:55.490 exaggerating, but, um, it's had a large 430 00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:58.450 number, and that's in order to make 431 00:17:58.450 --> 00:18:01.330 its velocity, uh, match the velocity of 432 00:18:01.330 --> 00:18:04.250 Mercury, um, which you'd think will be 433 00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:06.610 easy as you drop things into the inner solar 434 00:18:06.610 --> 00:18:08.050 system, but it's not actually. It's quite 435 00:18:08.050 --> 00:18:10.610 hard to do. You've got to kind of catch up 436 00:18:10.610 --> 00:18:13.130 with Mercury as it steams around in its orbit 437 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:14.850 because it's going faster than the Earth is 438 00:18:14.850 --> 00:18:17.620 in its orbit around the sun. Um, 439 00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:21.050 so, um, yes. So it's a very useful tool 440 00:18:21.050 --> 00:18:22.850 for exploring the solar system. I think 441 00:18:22.850 --> 00:18:24.810 you're about to confirm how many it's had. 442 00:18:25.050 --> 00:18:27.670 Andrew Dunkley: I haven't found it yet. I'm usually pretty 443 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:28.470 quick, but I'm not. 444 00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:29.830 Professor Fred Watson: You are pretty quick, yeah. 445 00:18:30.870 --> 00:18:33.190 Andrew Dunkley: It's proving elusive at the moment, but I'll 446 00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:33.550 get it. 447 00:18:33.550 --> 00:18:36.350 Professor Fred Watson: I will get. Has had an elusive number 448 00:18:36.350 --> 00:18:39.150 of slingshots, uh, uh, 449 00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:41.270 but the bottom line is that it's a process 450 00:18:41.270 --> 00:18:44.070 that works well and is actually 451 00:18:44.310 --> 00:18:46.150 very much a part of the 452 00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:49.270 astrodynamicists toolkit when they're 453 00:18:49.510 --> 00:18:52.310 actually working out the, um, orbits 454 00:18:52.310 --> 00:18:55.020 and um, trajectories of planets. 455 00:18:55.020 --> 00:18:57.980 Andrew Dunkley: Exploring the nine slingshots. 456 00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:01.380 Professor Fred Watson: Nine slingshots. There you go. Seven was an 457 00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:01.980 underestimate. 458 00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.780 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. One at Earth, two at Venus, and six at 459 00:19:04.780 --> 00:19:05.740 Mercury itself. 460 00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:09.020 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Fantastic. That's what you need to 461 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:11.620 match Mercury's orbital speed. Quite 462 00:19:11.620 --> 00:19:14.540 remarkable. So, um, how does it work? Well, 463 00:19:14.780 --> 00:19:16.780 it's counterintuitive, isn't it, because you 464 00:19:16.780 --> 00:19:19.620 think that a, uh, spacecraft falling in 465 00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:22.610 towards a planet, uh, it's going to 466 00:19:22.610 --> 00:19:25.490 gain velocity, but then as it leaves the 467 00:19:25.490 --> 00:19:28.090 planet, it's going to decelerate and so it 468 00:19:28.090 --> 00:19:30.210 would lose velocity. And you might think the 469 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.010 two would balance up, but the bottom line is 470 00:19:33.010 --> 00:19:35.650 they don't. And it's all about the angle that 471 00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:38.410 you come in, uh, when you intercept 472 00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:41.490 the planet's orbit. And if you get the 473 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:43.850 angle right, you can have this situation 474 00:19:44.010 --> 00:19:46.970 where, uh, without making contact at 475 00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:49.850 all, where some of the momentum of the planet 476 00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:52.330 is transferred to the spacecra. 477 00:19:53.010 --> 00:19:55.790 Um, and so the spacecraft gets 478 00:19:55.790 --> 00:19:58.430 a, uh, push in velocity, its velocity 479 00:19:58.430 --> 00:20:01.310 increases. The planet doesn't even notice the 480 00:20:01.310 --> 00:20:03.230 difference because the spacecraft has so 481 00:20:03.230 --> 00:20:05.430 little mass compared with, 482 00:20:06.050 --> 00:20:08.990 um, the planet. Um, so it's 483 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.110 balancing the momentum. 484 00:20:11.350 --> 00:20:13.990 Momentum, of course, is just the mass times 485 00:20:13.990 --> 00:20:16.830 the velocity. Uh, and so you've got a very 486 00:20:16.830 --> 00:20:19.790 big mass transferring momentum to a very 487 00:20:19.790 --> 00:20:22.470 small mass. And, um, that means you get 488 00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:25.090 quite a significant velocity kick, uh, in 489 00:20:25.090 --> 00:20:28.090 doing that. And so it's not to do 490 00:20:28.090 --> 00:20:31.090 with the rotation. Um, so Derek is 491 00:20:32.050 --> 00:20:35.010 right to point out that as a query, is it to 492 00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:37.650 do with the rotation? The answer is no. So if 493 00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:39.970 you had a planet that wasn't rotating at all, 494 00:20:40.590 --> 00:20:42.090 uh, you could still do a gravitational 495 00:20:42.090 --> 00:20:44.010 slingshot very successfully with it. Oh, 496 00:20:44.010 --> 00:20:44.450 okay. 497 00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:50.450 Andrew Dunkley: So does the spacecraft, when it's doing 498 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:53.450 this slingshot, actually steal some of 499 00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:54.290 the planet's energy? 500 00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:55.220 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. 501 00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:56.020 Andrew Dunkley: Is that how it works? 502 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.490 Professor Fred Watson: It's stealing momentum, uh, 503 00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:02.340 and um, using that to accelerate 504 00:21:02.340 --> 00:21:05.140 and sometimes quite dramatically. So the 505 00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:07.940 change in the orbital trajectory is really 506 00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:10.699 significant. But it's a fantastic tool 507 00:21:10.699 --> 00:21:13.220 for exploring the planets. 508 00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:16.180 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it is until the day we can 509 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:18.420 come up with a new way of, 510 00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:22.580 a new form of engine 511 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:24.820 propulsion. That's the word I was wanting. 512 00:21:25.270 --> 00:21:28.100 Uh, that um, renders 513 00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:30.180 gravitational assist unnecessary. 514 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:32.940 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. At the moment, we haven't 515 00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:34.420 got there yet. No, you're right. 516 00:21:34.820 --> 00:21:37.300 Andrew Dunkley: But it might. Yeah, it could be 517 00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:39.860 scramjet technology, it could be 518 00:21:40.100 --> 00:21:42.580 nuclear power, like fusion engines, things 519 00:21:42.580 --> 00:21:45.140 like that. We're a long way from that. But, 520 00:21:45.150 --> 00:21:48.080 uh, those are possibilities. Yeah, yeah. 521 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.200 Um, who knows? Um, 522 00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:53.560 but the more you speed up in space, the more 523 00:21:53.560 --> 00:21:55.160 you've got to be careful because there's lots 524 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.400 of stuff you can bump into. You don't really 525 00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:58.960 want to do that at pace, do you? 526 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.120 Professor Fred Watson: You've got to know where all this stuff is. 527 00:22:02.120 --> 00:22:04.080 And that's what astronomers are for. 528 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:04.760 Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. 529 00:22:04.760 --> 00:22:05.840 Professor Fred Watson: Tell you where it all is. 530 00:22:06.970 --> 00:22:08.950 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, thank you, Derek. I hope that covered, 531 00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:11.120 uh, your question adequately. 532 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.760 Space nuts. What we're going to do 533 00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:21.530 now, Fred Watson, is, um, we've got, uh, 534 00:22:21.560 --> 00:22:24.400 we've had quite a Canadian influence in, in 535 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.200 today's show by the look of it. Uh, this 536 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.119 comes um, from Jason in Montreal, in 537 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:32.000 Quebec. And uh, he says, I'm a big fan of the 538 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:32.200 show. 539 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.800 I have a question regarding the rapid rise of 540 00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:37.480 fully automated smart telescopes 541 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:40.460 and their place in the modern hobby. 542 00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.100 Uh, on one hand it feels like these devices 543 00:22:43.100 --> 00:22:45.220 are, ah, an incredible cost effective 544 00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:47.380 gateway. They allow beginners to dive 545 00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:50.300 straight into astrophotography and see almost 546 00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:52.740 instant results without spending thousands of 547 00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:54.700 dollars on complex gear right away. 548 00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:58.180 That immediate reward seems to be a fantastic 549 00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.020 way to spark a lifelong interest in 550 00:23:00.020 --> 00:23:02.980 astronomy. On the other hand, there 551 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:05.060 seems to be a, uh, bit of a divide in the 552 00:23:05.060 --> 00:23:06.700 community with some traditional 553 00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:09.870 astrophotographers viewing them as cheating 554 00:23:10.350 --> 00:23:13.110 because the automated software removes so 555 00:23:13.110 --> 00:23:16.070 much of the steep learning curve. What 556 00:23:16.070 --> 00:23:17.910 are your thoughts on this technological 557 00:23:17.910 --> 00:23:20.390 shift? Do you see smart telescopes as a 558 00:23:20.390 --> 00:23:23.030 positive tool for opening up the night sky to 559 00:23:23.030 --> 00:23:25.950 a broader audience, or do you Feel 560 00:23:26.030 --> 00:23:28.790 something valuable is lost when we automate 561 00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:30.830 the setup and tracking process. 562 00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:34.630 Uh, I actually bought one recently and I've 563 00:23:34.630 --> 00:23:36.710 already learned a lot over the past few 564 00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:38.830 months. Getting those quick results didn't 565 00:23:38.830 --> 00:23:41.170 stop me from wanting to learn more in. In 566 00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:44.090 fact, it did the opposite. Uh, it got 567 00:23:44.090 --> 00:23:45.690 me watching more astronomy and 568 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:48.410 astrophotography videos than usual, uh, on 569 00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:50.850 YouTube and joining Facebook groups to learn 570 00:23:50.850 --> 00:23:53.770 from other users. And of course, let me 571 00:23:53.770 --> 00:23:56.450 find your podcast. Uh, thank you for the 572 00:23:56.450 --> 00:23:58.530 great episodes. Uh, that comes from Jason in 573 00:23:58.530 --> 00:23:59.690 Montreal. I'm going to show you something, 574 00:23:59.690 --> 00:24:00.090 Fred Watson. 575 00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:03.050 Professor Fred Watson: Yep. Let me see. 576 00:24:04.270 --> 00:24:06.890 Uh, I've got one. 577 00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:08.030 He's got one. 578 00:24:08.030 --> 00:24:10.450 Andrew Dunkley: Um, I've got one. And yes, it simplifies 579 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:12.330 everything. It does all the hard work for 580 00:24:12.330 --> 00:24:13.910 you, but if you someone who doesn't like 581 00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:16.230 doing the hard work, it's a godsend. 582 00:24:17.110 --> 00:24:19.230 Yeah, that's my take on it. I'll keep it nice 583 00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:22.070 and short. I know a couple of people 584 00:24:22.070 --> 00:24:23.950 who've got both. They've got a traditional 585 00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:26.950 telescope with the whole kit set 586 00:24:26.950 --> 00:24:29.069 up with their computers and the programmes 587 00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:31.830 and all the tracking technology. 588 00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:34.310 They like to do it the old fashioned way. 589 00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:36.630 And, uh, they've also got smart 590 00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:38.870 telescopes, um, which 591 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.560 do the same thing. But, um, you know, 592 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:44.600 you've got to rob Peter to pay Paul. The 593 00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:46.760 efficiency and simplicity of that, 594 00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:50.640 uh, also means that your images aren't going 595 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.120 to be nearly as good as a 596 00:24:53.120 --> 00:24:55.720 traditional telescope. Uh, so 597 00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.200 it ebbs and flows. There's a cost for 598 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.400 the, um, let's not say the word cheating, 599 00:25:04.760 --> 00:25:07.720 but there is a cost. Um, uh, but it 600 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:09.700 does make astrophotography 601 00:25:10.970 --> 00:25:13.930 immensely affordable for a lot of 602 00:25:13.930 --> 00:25:14.170 people. 603 00:25:14.330 --> 00:25:16.650 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And accessible too. Yes. Um, 604 00:25:17.450 --> 00:25:20.010 so, yes, look, um, 605 00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:22.650 I think Jason sort of answered his own 606 00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:25.290 question in exactly the way I would. Uh, 607 00:25:25.769 --> 00:25:28.490 that, uh, you've got 608 00:25:28.810 --> 00:25:31.610 the two aspects of it. It's a 609 00:25:31.610 --> 00:25:33.610 brilliant way of getting 610 00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:36.570 into astrophotography, 611 00:25:37.370 --> 00:25:40.220 um, almost painlessly, um, 612 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:44.660 on a very good level too. 613 00:25:45.330 --> 00:25:47.860 Uh, and if you then wanted to do 614 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:50.460 more, if you wanted to go for a bigger 615 00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:53.220 telescope and do your image processing 616 00:25:53.620 --> 00:25:54.780 in a more, um, 617 00:25:56.340 --> 00:25:59.060 perhaps a more precise way that's, 618 00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:02.020 uh, still open to you, I think, as a tool 619 00:26:02.020 --> 00:26:04.860 for getting people involved in astronomy. 620 00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:07.020 I think they're absolutely fabulous. I don't 621 00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:09.530 have one myself. Uh, I'm glad you've got one 622 00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:11.000 one, Andrew, because I've seen some of the 623 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:12.440 results from that and they are very 624 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.080 impressive. Uh, I've got a number of other 625 00:26:15.080 --> 00:26:16.840 friends who've got them as well, who are 626 00:26:16.840 --> 00:26:18.560 themselves professional astronomers. 627 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.760 Andrew Dunkley: There's a photo I took the Other night of the 628 00:26:21.760 --> 00:26:22.240 M8. 629 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.600 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. There you go. And it's lovely. 630 00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:28.040 Colour balance. That's pretty well what you'd 631 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:30.240 expect to see from a David Malin image. 632 00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:32.560 And that's what's like. 633 00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:34.760 Andrew Dunkley: David Malan was a pioneer in this stuff. 634 00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:35.200 Professor Fred Watson: He did. 635 00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:36.800 Andrew Dunkley: Now you can do it from your lounge room. 636 00:26:37.350 --> 00:26:39.990 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. With. You can literally with your mobile 637 00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:41.270 phone. On your m. Mobile phone, 638 00:26:43.110 --> 00:26:46.030 Telescope outside. Um, yeah. I think 639 00:26:46.030 --> 00:26:48.770 it's fantastic. I'm very, uh, 640 00:26:49.030 --> 00:26:51.470 much old school. I love pottering around with 641 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:53.310 a telescope with nothing more than an 642 00:26:53.310 --> 00:26:54.870 eyepiece. I've never really ventured into 643 00:26:54.870 --> 00:26:57.350 astrophotography. The nearest thing I've got 644 00:26:57.510 --> 00:26:59.790 to that has been a lot of aurora 645 00:26:59.790 --> 00:27:02.710 photography. Uh, um, which I 646 00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:05.270 love and is now also a lot more accessible 647 00:27:05.270 --> 00:27:08.230 just with a smartphone. Uh, so I don't 648 00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:09.770 carry around. Found all the kit I used to. 649 00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:12.050 When we go up to the Arctic, uh, to look for 650 00:27:12.050 --> 00:27:13.970 the aurora, just take my smartphone. 651 00:27:15.620 --> 00:27:18.300 Um, but you're right. Um, 652 00:27:19.250 --> 00:27:21.130 I think, as I said, I think Jason's answered 653 00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:23.490 it perfectly. It's obviously 654 00:27:23.730 --> 00:27:26.690 stimulated him to go further. Uh, he loves 655 00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:29.000 what he's got and he's finding out more. Uh, 656 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.330 best of all, he found space nuts. Yes, nice. 657 00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:33.700 But, um. Uh, 658 00:27:34.930 --> 00:27:37.330 I would not be somebody who 659 00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:40.380 would frown upon these devices and 660 00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:43.140 saying, in my day we did not 661 00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:45.140 have this sort of thing. You know, we had to 662 00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:47.700 do it properly. We had to understand what was 663 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:50.620 going on. Well, you can still do it 664 00:27:50.620 --> 00:27:53.459 and understand what's going on, uh, with 665 00:27:53.459 --> 00:27:56.220 your smart telescope. Well, what's. Sorry, go 666 00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:56.500 ahead. 667 00:27:56.740 --> 00:27:59.580 Andrew Dunkley: On mine, when I pick a target, it then gives 668 00:27:59.580 --> 00:28:02.100 me an audio briefing on what the target is, 669 00:28:02.100 --> 00:28:03.540 who found it, when it was found. 670 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:06.380 Professor Fred Watson: That is fabulous. 671 00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:07.220 Andrew Dunkley: It is amazing. 672 00:28:10.090 --> 00:28:10.570 Good stuff. 673 00:28:10.730 --> 00:28:12.490 Professor Fred Watson: It's an astronomy class as well. 674 00:28:13.910 --> 00:28:16.570 Um, I think I'm right in saying that 675 00:28:16.890 --> 00:28:19.330 the first of these smart telescopes was a 676 00:28:19.330 --> 00:28:22.010 Unihedron. I think, uh, that was probably 677 00:28:22.810 --> 00:28:25.050 six or seven years ago when I saw the first 678 00:28:25.050 --> 00:28:27.130 one of those and I was very impressed with 679 00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:29.730 it. But what I was going to say was that they 680 00:28:29.730 --> 00:28:32.570 have now come down in price to be, 681 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.620 um, really quite affordable. 682 00:28:35.090 --> 00:28:35.450 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. 683 00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:37.730 Professor Fred Watson: And it's not beyond the realms of possibility 684 00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:39.610 that one day there might be one in the Watson 685 00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:42.250 household. Although I do like things that are 686 00:28:42.250 --> 00:28:44.250 made of brass. And do you look through one 687 00:28:44.250 --> 00:28:45.170 end and see how they. 688 00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:47.890 Andrew Dunkley: There are a mass of them out there and quite 689 00:28:47.890 --> 00:28:50.690 a few are, uh, well under a thousand dollars. 690 00:28:51.090 --> 00:28:51.570 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. 691 00:28:52.370 --> 00:28:54.770 Andrew Dunkley: So, you know, that makes 692 00:28:55.170 --> 00:28:56.770 a pretty wide target audience. 693 00:28:56.930 --> 00:28:59.010 The other thing mine does is you can click on 694 00:28:59.010 --> 00:29:01.880 the map on your phone and you can see where 695 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.680 other uh, people are that are using 696 00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:06.280 the same gear as you. 697 00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:07.160 Professor Fred Watson: Interesting. 698 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:09.320 Andrew Dunkley: I'm not sure, I'm not sure that goes down 699 00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:10.240 with the privacy laws. 700 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:11.680 Professor Fred Watson: But anyway, uh, I was going to say is there a 701 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.880 privacy infringement there? Maybe, yeah. 702 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.840 Andrew Dunkley: I've got um, satellite navigation in the car 703 00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:18.840 that does the same thing. It shows you other 704 00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:21.740 users of that particular device but um, 705 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:24.880 they've um, curtailed it in Australia so it 706 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.520 only shows you where they were like 10 707 00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:27.080 minutes ago. 708 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:28.440 Professor Fred Watson: Okay. 709 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.440 Andrew Dunkley: Which is pointless. Just turn it off. 710 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:32.780 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is of a waste. 711 00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:35.500 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Uh, well, you know, we live in nanny 712 00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:37.290 state New South Wales, so you've um, 713 00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:40.940 everything's on the table for uh, some sort 714 00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:43.820 of scrutiny. Probably me now after saying 715 00:29:43.820 --> 00:29:46.660 that. But yeah, Jason, look, I'm a big fan 716 00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:48.660 and you are too. And uh, 717 00:29:49.540 --> 00:29:51.860 I don't think it does spoil the tradition, 718 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.460 uh, or the traditional approach to um, 719 00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:57.340 astrophotography because vinyl um, 720 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:00.290 records have come back, back. So you know, 721 00:30:01.570 --> 00:30:03.090 you can't write anything off. 722 00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:05.650 Yeah, but I wanted that question 723 00:30:05.890 --> 00:30:08.770 to um, I wanted you to hear 724 00:30:08.770 --> 00:30:10.130 that question Fred Watson, because I know 725 00:30:10.130 --> 00:30:12.650 you've got a long history in um, in 726 00:30:12.650 --> 00:30:14.290 telescopes, you've written books about them 727 00:30:14.770 --> 00:30:17.730 and um, this is, this is the next big thing, 728 00:30:17.730 --> 00:30:18.370 I suppose. 729 00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:20.290 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah. 730 00:30:20.290 --> 00:30:22.290 Andrew Dunkley: While we're talking about it, um, when you 731 00:30:22.290 --> 00:30:24.610 were away last, um, Jonty 732 00:30:24.930 --> 00:30:27.910 Horner grabbed a couple of astrophotographers 733 00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:30.790 and we did a special on astrophotography 734 00:30:31.270 --> 00:30:33.990 which I'm not sure if Huw's released it yet, 735 00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:36.030 but I think he's still working on how to get 736 00:30:36.030 --> 00:30:38.270 that out there. It's quite a, I think it's an 737 00:30:38.270 --> 00:30:40.390 hour long special on 738 00:30:40.550 --> 00:30:43.270 astrophotography and the techniques and how 739 00:30:43.270 --> 00:30:45.950 they did it and what you can do. So if you 740 00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:47.510 really want to get into the nuts and bolts of 741 00:30:47.510 --> 00:30:49.990 astrophotography, have a look for that one. 742 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:52.510 Um, I'm not sure it's been released yet. Yet. 743 00:30:52.760 --> 00:30:55.110 Um, it took some pretty heavy editing because 744 00:30:55.110 --> 00:30:57.950 there were four people on it. So it was okay, 745 00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.470 it was a big show. But uh, yeah, that one 746 00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:02.750 will be available soon, if not already. 747 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.150 Uh, and thanks for all your questions. Please 748 00:31:06.150 --> 00:31:07.950 keep them coming at our, ah, website, 749 00:31:08.029 --> 00:31:10.830 spacenutspodcast.com or spacenuts 750 00:31:10.830 --> 00:31:13.670 IO and click on the Little AMA tab at the 751 00:31:13.670 --> 00:31:16.350 top and send us your text or audio questions. 752 00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:17.790 If you're sending us an audio question, 753 00:31:17.790 --> 00:31:19.870 please remember to tell us where you're from 754 00:31:20.350 --> 00:31:21.010 and your name. 755 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:21.400 Andrew Dunkley: Name. 756 00:31:21.580 --> 00:31:24.030 Andrew Dunkley: Um, it doesn't do that by itself. Uh, 757 00:31:24.030 --> 00:31:26.240 although I know sometimes people forget to 758 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.080 tell us their name on where they're from on 759 00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:30.720 text as well. Um, but that's 760 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.670 okay. Um, it's not mandatory, but, uh, 761 00:31:33.670 --> 00:31:36.320 it just helps us to know where everybody's 762 00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.680 at. Fred Watson, we're done. Thanks very 763 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:39.000 much. 764 00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:42.320 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, thank you, Andrew. Good fun and great to 765 00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:44.120 hear from the listeners as well. Especially, 766 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.460 you know, when we get questions that, uh, 767 00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:49.030 cover everything from, from dark matter, 768 00:31:49.030 --> 00:31:51.990 stars and dormant comets to the latest in 769 00:31:51.990 --> 00:31:54.310 telescope technology. Where else can you hear 770 00:31:54.310 --> 00:31:54.790 about all that? 771 00:31:54.790 --> 00:31:55.870 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, exactly. 772 00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:56.190 Professor Fred Watson: Right. 773 00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:58.630 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. All right. Thanks, Fred Watson. See you 774 00:31:58.630 --> 00:31:58.910 soon. 775 00:31:59.070 --> 00:32:00.030 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. 776 00:32:00.030 --> 00:32:01.430 Andrew Dunkley: For now, Professor Fred Watson Watson, 777 00:32:01.430 --> 00:32:03.510 astronomer at large, and thanks to Huw in the 778 00:32:03.510 --> 00:32:05.110 studio, couldn't be with us today because he 779 00:32:05.110 --> 00:32:07.990 bought a smart telescope. He's 780 00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:09.990 not smart enough to use it. Uh, and from me, 781 00:32:09.990 --> 00:32:11.950 Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your company. 782 00:32:12.350 --> 00:32:14.110 We'll catch you on the next episode of Space 783 00:32:14.110 --> 00:32:16.430 Nuts. Bye bye. Space Nuts. 784 00:32:16.430 --> 00:32:18.700 You've been listening to the Space Nick Nuts 785 00:32:18.700 --> 00:32:21.580 podcast, available at 786 00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:23.540 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 787 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.540 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast 788 00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:28.860 player. You can also stream on demand at 789 00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:29.540 bytes. 790 00:32:29.540 --> 00:32:32.340 Professor Fred Watson: Com. This has been another quality podcast 791 00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:34.330 production from Bytes. Com. Um,